Can Joel and I agree on Brian’s Three Rules for successful delegation? You’ll find out today!
We’re kicking off a fun, new mini-series with one goal in mind: you. We think you’ll enjoy the new format and interaction, but more importantly you’ll get to listen in on the reasoning (and debate) that goes into some of the core principles that we hold to in our businesses.
This time around, delegation. Delegating tasks to others is not easy. Many leaders struggle to delegate, or to delegate well, usually citing a few specific reasons:
- I find it hard to trust others
- I want the job done “right”
- I have other priorities
Have you ever felt that way? You’re certainly not alone.
Follow these three rules for successful delegation and enjoy today’s episode,
Chris LoCurto 0:10
Welcome to the Chris LoCurto show where we discuss leadership and life and discover that business is what you do, not who you are.
Welcome to the show, folks. Hope you're having a fabulous day. Wherever you are. We are having we're having such a great day. We have on the show today. We have got the fabulous the amazing, the beautiful Brian, Alex. Brian, welcome to the show.
Brian A 0:39
That is me. And I'm happy to be here.
Chris LoCurto 0:42
And we also have the outlandish the exuberant out of dog I'm out of about about you
Joel Fortner 0:51
Just read the bio Chris just read the bio
Don't let Brian ever give you the bio.
Chris LoCurto 1:05
Oh, we have got a fun show. In fact, we've got a Brian, what do we call it a series?
Brian A 1:12
Yeah, mini series of mini mini
Chris LoCurto 1:14
A mini series that we are doing, that we are excited about, we think you guys are gonna love. But before we get into that, kind of tell everybody what we're doing, Brian?
Brian A 1:26
Yeah, so we're talking in this particular episode about successful delegation. And this is obviously for productivity as leaders, but also, you know, so that our teams are empowered with whatever, you know, we're tasking them with, without sacrificing our sanity. And, and we're going to get into that in a second to talk about why so many leaders are hesitant to, to delegate, why is this such an issue as a leadership concept, but just to talk about the little series that we're doing, we've never done something like this before. So hopefully this comes off, like we want it to, which is fun and kind of rapid fire.
Chris LoCurto 2:11
It's really good in our minds.
Brian A 2:13
In theory, it's amazing in theory. So the idea here, we're gonna set this up, we'll go to a break, we'll come back. And we're gonna talk about three rules for successful delegation. The the caveat here is that I've not talked about these rules with Chris or with Joel, I have no idea. They're gonna like it, they're gonna hate it, they're gonna want to chop it up and reconfigure it put their own words, I don't know, anything, no holds barred, anything could go. So we're going to have some fun talking about these rules. At the end of the show. Hopefully, we'll have some clarity on what those rules should be. But all along the way, for the listeners, they're going to get to see the ideation and the thought process that goes into this. So while this isn't so much teaching, they're going to be learning about how we arrive at a certain conclusion about the topic we're dealing with.
Chris LoCurto 3:18
I like it. And if I understand myself, what you were saying at the beginning of that is that sacrificing your sanity is a bad thing.
Brian A 3:29
If you have any left, then yes, getting rid of it is a problem.
Chris LoCurto 3:34
Keep that's a problem. All right. Well, we come back after this. We're gonna tackle Brian's three rules of delegation.
Joel Fortner 3:46
Hey, it's Joel Fortner. Here. I'm the Vice President of leadership development on Chris's team and I oversee our Next Level Mastermind business coaching program. Most business owners and leaders lack a clear path to succeed in business. They question whether they're making the right decisions if they're focusing on the right things to really grow their business. If this is you, you need a coach in your life. coaches help you make better decisions, navigate uncertainty lead more effectively, and grow your business without sacrificing your life and your family. In their first year. Our clients typically see an average of 67% increase in gross revenue and an average of 138% increase in net profit and regained hours of time. Our clients stay in the program for three and a half years simply because of the results they get. So if you're ready to run your business at the next level and see the growth you've been wanting, and visit Chrislocurto.com/mastermind. Again, Chrislocurto.com/mastermind today.
Chris LoCurto 4:47
Alright, we're back and Brian. All right. You take it from here, brother.
Brian A 4:52
That is what I like to do. So harbor Harvard Business Review how Harvard Business Review says this one of the most difficult transitions for leaders to make is the shift from doing to leading. And we all know we've all been there. I mean, Chris, this was a startup at some point. Now it's the megalithic, you know, point main group, shepherding shepherds all across the world, across the land across the globe, whatever. Yeah, but we were, we've all been there. And we're there a lot of times where it's easier to do sometimes than to teach how to do and to successfully delegate that to other people. So let's just deal with this really quickly at the beginning. So it sets up the context, why is it so tough for leaders to delegate?
Chris LoCurto 5:45
Yeah, this is something that we hit really hard in Killing The Leadership Crazy Cycle. And if you just listen to the title, Killing The Leadership, Crazy Cycle, there's a reason we call it the Leadership Crazy Cycle, because you end up in this process where you keep thinking you're accomplishing a lot. And you are you're doing a whole ton of tasks that day, you're overwhelmed. You know, you you get home and your spouse says, what'd you do today? And you're like, I really don't have a clue. It was so much. It seems like things are happening. But unfortunately, there's no duplication on the process. Why is it so tough to delegate? The number one reason for me is that I don't trust that the person I first off, I don't understand how to delegate properly. So let's just assume that everything is under the concept of I don't know what proper delegation looks like.
Brian A 6:38
For you personally, here, I mean, is this behind the scenes? This makes so much sense, it makes so much sense now? Why does it Chris, give me more work to do? It? Does it trust me?
Chris LoCurto 6:51
But yeah, I really don't know what I'm talking about. I just, we just, for some reason, people show up and listen to the show. The reason why delegation is so tough, is because when I don't know how to properly delegate when I don't, and we've all experienced it, we've all had leaders in the past that want to delegate something to us, and then they didn't lead us well, they didn't instruct us, well, we didn't do it the same way they did. And then after three attempts, you know them coming by going, did you do it? Did you do it? Did you do it, and we've not really got it the way that they want it to be? They take it back. And that's how we've experienced delegation, right? It happens everywhere, across the globe, this megalithic company, I'm going to use that I just I'm just so glad I got to put that in there. We have taught so many leaders how to not be afraid, by understanding what proper delegation is. So without knowing what it is, delegation is so tough, because I don't trust that the person I'm going to give something to is going to get it done. I don't trust that they're going to do it the way that I would have it done. I don't trust that if I do delegate it, that my life is going to get easier that my my ability to lead I you know, I'm going to move on to something else. And I'm going to have to come back and take you know, I'm going to put more on my plate because I just took something off my plate but then I'm gonna go have to grab that back and put it back on my plate. Now my plate is over full yet again. And then another really super tough part is that if my identity is wrapped up in the very things that I'm trying to delegate, then man it's going to be really difficult for me to get that off my plate. Because the moment I do I can't see beyond it. And so my fear is, well I won't actually be needed anymore, which is just the world's biggest lie because you know, any leader who has ever delegated properly understands you become more valuable once that's off of your plate. So those are my pieces Joseph. And by the way, people always ask me what did you just call him Joseph? No. Joel says it's just a nickname. So I shouldn't explain that years ago.
Joel Fortner 9:04
He's a name changer. He's a name changer.
Chris LoCurto 9:06
I'm a name changer. That's right.
Joel Fortner 9:08
So other other pieces so first of all, I think Chris and I almost speak for you Chris, we would both agree Brian with that rule. Or with that Harvard Business Review yes support
Chris LoCurto 9:21
Harvard's principle is sound okay, we should have a little *Ding*
Joel Fortner 9:26
Yeah, we can have Aaron add that in when you go to policy stuff a little and we haven't gotten to
Brian A 9:32
the rules yet. We're just on tax. Oh,
Joel Fortner 9:35
I thought that was a roll. Nevermind. See this is ideating I like this because people are seeing how the sausage is made here. And on podcast land. This is what you meant by ideation. How do we actually do stuff?
Brian A 9:54
Just telling jokes.
Joel Fortner 9:56
I mean, there's other things involved. There's fears involved, there's where your worth is coming from that holds you back from making that transition. There's the 'I stink at communicating'. So I don't trust myself to even delegate it well, because you're not going to understand it. And I don't have the words for it. I have conversations with people all the time or the time to communicate it, oh, I can't do that. I can't properly delegate it, or I've done that before. And it didn't work out well. So let me just keep on doing that. Never thinking, you know, when is that going to end? Because I also want to grow this company or grow my team. So you've got contradictory thought there.
Brian A 10:33
Yeah. All right. All right, good. Well, we've dug quite a hole. So let's, let's slowly help people climb out of this hole that we've dug them in. So here's how we play, I'm going to read a rule and its associated rationale, and then one of you will kick it off with an immediate gut reaction. Again, maybe you love it, maybe you hate it. But you'll need to modify it to fit your perspective and experience, then the other person weighs in either agreeing or disagreeing, hopefully more disagreement, because that's going to be more in entertaining and more informative. And then at that point, the listener hopefully, is going to take away from all of this deliberation that goes into everything, a greater perspective.
Chris LoCurto 11:19
Okay, so we're on a game show.
Joel Fortner 11:22
This is I know, that's fun. Right? We you need up Steve Harvey.
Brian A 11:28
Be Steve Harvey, we need Aaron to put in a little buzzers were at the right time. Okay, so here we go. Three rules for successful delegation, we'll do the first two, we'll take a break, do the third one, and then we'll wrap.
So rule number one, you must be an expert in the task you wish to delegate. Here's the rationale. And then I'll read the rule one more time. If you have any doubt or ambiguity about the task you're delegating, you will inevitably transfer that doubt and ambiguity to the person you're delegating it to. And they will never accomplish it. So you must be an expert in the task you want to delegate go.
Chris LoCurto 12:13
I'm gonna agree 75%.
Brian A 12:18
I do not agree, focus on the 25% then pushes.
Chris LoCurto 12:21
So here's the pushback. So the obvious answer is yes, you should be an expert. However, that is that's a rule built in a vacuum, right? It's the assumption that if you're not an expert, you're going to suck at the delegation piece. Folks, we are living in a world where things are moving so rapidly, sometimes you don't have an option to be an expert at the thing that you need to delegate is also leaving out what if the person is better than me? What if they have better ideas? Right? So the concept that you have to be an expert. And this is a bad thing that a lot of entrepreneurs get stuck in, right? A lot of leaders do too. But especially entrepreneurs, where you need to do it exactly the way I do it. And I will tell you, I am somebody who my whole life is spent around getting perspective, what's the best what's, what's the best way to do this? Trying to speak English, that's another thing. How do I make this thing the most efficient way? All of these things? So when I go to delegate, I really want them to do most of what I've done. I don't believe in the old while you just need to let me do the thing that you're delegating in my way. No, no, no, no, no, it's successful. If it is successful, otherwise, I shouldn't be delegating it. That I want you to do most of what I've accomplished, and then let's work together to see what you come up with that's better on your end, or fits your personality style better. So a key example is if I'm delegating to a high C, something I've been doing, there's no possible way a high C and I'm talking 80s 90s You know that there's no way they're going to do it the same way I would. I can do things without having an immense amount of detail built around it. I don't even have to see the whole whole picture I need to see most of it. But I need to just understand what is this thing what are we doing? What's the purpose and then I can go make the thing happen? Hi, see is gonna need way more details way higher view so that they can they need the 30,000 foot view so that they can understand the five foot implementation, right? So if I'm an expert to my view abilities, then sure I'm an expert, but if I am delegating something that I know exactly how this is supposed to be. It's leaving out you bringing anything to the table. It's leaving out perspective. It's definitely leaving out ownership. It's leaving out buy in. One of the big things we teach all the time around here is is that you don't just go dictate to somebody what they're going to do. Help them to have buy in and ownership by giving them dignity of speaking into the situation. Yeah. teach, teach, teach, what do you see? What do you think? What's your input, teach, teach, teach? What do you see? What do you think? What's your input? How could you make this better? All of those things allows the person you're delegating to to have some dignity in the process, which gives them buying and ownership. So I would say in the rapid fire answer 75% I agree with that. But it's I I would agree with that. 100% in a vacuum 75% In real world, Joseph.
Joel Fortner 15:46
Yeah, I, you know, I unfortunately, I can't disagree. Sorry, Brian. Because he has one job, one job, one job, and I failed.
So yeah, it's when you take the the reason I agree. And I align with what, what Chris is saying is because it's about what's the end goal of delegation, it is properly setting somebody up for success. That doesn't mean you have to have all the information, it's Can you lead them to be successful in what you're delegating to. So that may be here's all my information. Here's the process, here's what I've done. That's as far as I can go. And then the person starts to ask questions. Well, what about this? What about that? What about this? I don't know. I don't know. And I don't know. Those are all great questions. Can you go get information on that, and let's actually on that piece, let's discuss it and talk about it before you move forward. And then they do that, and then you sit down, and then you have more discussion. And now they're set up for success did you have to be an expert for that person to be set up for success? No, because it's, it's it's a relationship, it's dual sided. So as a leader you're looking at, I need to delegate this because I need to get it off my plate, I need to move on to other things. I've hired somebody who's smarter than me, I've, you know, expanding the company, expanding the team, and I'm adding team members. So let's get this stuff off the plate. And so now let's say you've got someone smart and capable, hopefully, you've done a great job in your hiring process, bringing someone on with great capacity and potential to be taught. And now it's focusing on making them successful. Well, if you're trying to do a task, or a project or some initiative, and you've done it for five years, and you've taken it Oh, so far, and then you've realized, I need somebody who can do this all the time, because I can only spend three hours a week on it. But this is critical to get to the vision that we want to get to execute the strategy we want to execute. So now let's bring somebody on who's been doing this for 15 years, and can do it for 40 to 50 hours a week. And so it's you can see all this and see where you don't have to be an expert to set somebody up for success to do the job. Well.
Chris LoCurto 18:04
If this was a political debate, I would give a 32nd rebuttal right. Is that correct?
Brian A 18:08
I was. I was about to say that the delegate from Idaho will yield the mic. I did so many things right there.
Chris LoCurto 18:17
But Joel pointed out something super important. If you do not hire people smarter than you, then yes, you need to be the expert. If you hire people smarter than you then know, there's a level of trusting that they can do this. Hopefully, you know, I look to bring people on that are going to do things better than I can so that I don't you know, it can go to a whole nother level.
Brian A 18:42
Yeah. I'm glad we're doing this rapid fire. Because if this was it, it'd be like a three hour episode. Right? Okay. Totally. We're moving on. Delegate will yield the mic now, the delegate, you see what I did? Forget it. Okay.
Rule number two, you Okay, here we go. Is that the expectation for accountability must be clearly set. Alright, the rationale, the delegate must understand what is expected as far as outcome and when it is expected by and that's why we employ tools like K RAs and KPIs. So again, here's the rule expectation for accountability must be clearly set. Joseph? Yeah, uncomfortable pause.
Joel Fortner 19:33
Yeah, I can't. I can't think of anything right now that I would disagree with on that rule, especially from a leadership perspective on if I'm understanding the role correctly. Because otherwise, I'm not setting up who I'm leaving for success. They don't have clarity, on the expectation. They don't have a clarity on what even accountability is around the expectation about this. Here's how this is going to go. This is why we're why I'm going to all this detail. This is why I'm leading you to see what winning and success looks like in your job. This is how you get there, here's what we're going to measure, here's how we're going to meet this is when we're going to discuss stuff, here's what I'm going to hold you accountable to, you know, this is what if we don't achieve these things, this is what happens, I want you to see the ripple effect of that across the team or the company. And it's just, it goes back to having high levels of quality communication. Because it's the number one thing that causes failure mistakes and problems within basically every company on the planet is so many issues come back to a lack of this kind of a roll.
Chris LoCurto 20:50
Yeah, Joel just put it up a number one thing that we see with every single business we work with, the number one issue is a lack of high levels of quality communication. Number two, is right up there with it. A lack of quality accountability. Accountability is making sure that somebody is set up for success. Somebody has training, somebody has the tools, somebody understands what they're doing, somebody has been able to ask every question that they have to make sure that there's no confusion. Everything has been communicated incredibly well. Things are put in place to you know, metrics to measure how well is this going? How's it doing all this? Again, like I'll point back to killing leadership Crazy Cycle. There's this process of delegation that is a it's not a short process, it's a long process of you making sure you've done all the right things on the front side. And then you're coming along and helping guiding answering questions, letting some rope out, when they're at a place where they can run with it on their own, then you let out considerably more rope. All through that process. Accountability isn't what we believe it is. Did you do this? Did you do this? Did you get that done yet? Is it done yet? It's not done yet. Alright, let me take it back. That is not accountability. Accountability is making somebody successful, by putting all the right pieces in place for them to be successful. At the end of the day, if everything is in place, and the person can pull it off, then we can point to the person. But until we've looked at every piece of accountability, and made sure that they're correct and right and servicing the team member, well, then we can't point at the person, we got to point at the process, we got to point out the leadership.
Brian A 22:38
Yeah, makes total sense. Before we move on, we're going to take a quick break, but the just to highlight and feel free for a very short rebuttal. But the rule states that the expectation for accountability is clearly set. And I'll just say, you know, from from my side of it, working with this team and using things like a sauna and other things, and then you know having the the metrics of ARA and and KPIs and all of that one of the best things about accountability in our team on our team is that there's an expectation that we're going to talk about this next Tuesday at this meeting, come prepared to report on x. And that expectation cultivates not a culture of fear of well, I'm going to try to get by and avoid but it it you know, it helps motivate us to do the work and to gain clarity if there's something blocking our progress moving forward. About that. Okay. All right, when we come back the third rule that you need to follow in order to successfully delegate to others.
Joel Fortner 23:56
Hey, leaders, this is Joel Fortner VP of leadership development at Chris LoCurto's. Company. I have some questions for you. Do you as a leader feel like you are caught up in a Crazy Cycle of stress and task that never ends week to week? Do you ever have to deal with tough conversations with team members? And you sit at home the next day the night before worried about how's it going to go? What am I going to say? What are they going to say? Can I think fast enough on my feet? Is it going to be a total failure? Are you experiencing culture problems or that stuff that just breaks down trust in unity on your team? Well, if you're if you can relate to any of this, this is a pretty typical leadership story and situation. Here's the thing though it doesn't have to be that way. And we can help you solve these things. We can help you become the leader that solves these problems and leads 13 to greater success. I want to introduce you to the key leaders program. This is an ongoing leadership development program that gives you the lesson track coaching and accountability. You need to become the leader you can become to actually implement what you're actually learning in this program, things fall apart without great leadership and intentionality. If you want to solve the problems that are holding you back from being a great leader, we can help you with this program, get in touch with Joel at ChrisLoCurto.com.
Brian A 25:22
Alright, and we're back.
Rule number three is that the team member must receive all of the information, we're talking about access rights tools, step by step instruction, in order to successfully complete the task, or it will be fraught with frustration. Here's the rationale. You got to set up the team member for success. We mentioned this already. In order for you to have minimal frustration and properly transfer all that's necessary. So do we agree with the rule number three, that the team member must receive all of the information necessary?
Chris LoCurto 25:58
Yeah, I mean, come on, man, we need we need a harder one than that. We need a tougher road, we need something we can. Here's, here's the funny thing as you say it, the rule 100%. There's no ifs, ands or buts about it. If you do not give all of the things the person needs to be successful, frustration is going to happen. Here's the funny thing. As you were reading that rule off, I thought of every leader and every entrepreneur that heard that so much. Oh, I don't have time for that. So funny thing is the rules easy. Yep, absolutely 100%. Here's where the struggle comes in. So many leaders do not. And this is a part of not delegating properly. So many leaders do not believe they have the time to spend on getting all of the very things you just listed off. And that is huge. That becomes a mess. And here's the funny thing is they also don't see how they're not spending the time getting the right tools, the right software, the right education, whatever the training, whatever it is, how it comes back to their frustration, they may not even be really as concerned about the frustration of the team member, because they may be thinking baptism by fire, hey, figure this thing out, go make it happen. What they don't see is that this is going to come back and frustrate the daylights out of them as a leader, because they didn't do their job, right. They didn't get all the things in place. They didn't take care of the team member, they didn't get the right tools. They didn't even stop I remember years ago, years ago, another leader hired a team member and didn't have a computer, an email, a no saw nothing. The person show I don't even think they had a phone. The person showed up and there was a desk. And that was literally it. And they started that day going, oh, oh, we should have gotten you this, that I was just this colossal failure of setting up a team member who showed up in four days, because it took days to get a computer, all the software, all the things ready for that person to actually do any work. So yes, I completely agree.
Joel Fortner 28:11
I'm trying to I'm trying to think of something to disagree with. I was gonna find something I'm just gonna fit would have been to find like a little tiny piece and take it out of context and disagree. So well.
Brian A 28:25
Go ahead. I think there is a way to do that. And I think I have an idea. But shoot,
Joel Fortner 28:30
yeah, the only the only way that I see right now. And I'm only you know only Oh, so smart. So there's probably lots of other ways, is going to what we've talked about already, is the pretty much go back and listen to everything we already said. It's like, it's like, does that person need all the information to do better and better and better in the job? Or in the task? You delegated? Yes. But again, is it all on the leader to pass on all that information? No. Because again, that's in a vacuum. It's not, you're not hiring someone that doesn't have a brain, you're not you're shifting somebody into a role on your team that doesn't have a brain, it's like I literally have no idea. Let's go back to school on what a computer is. And now let me work you up to be successful from there. And so like, that's the like that and that's it. That's the only thing is that to the point. It's the criticality of making the time because that time objection comes up all the time. That's the thing that holds people back. It's like even when people are considering coming and working with us and thinking about doing coaching, and then it's presented with all of this change, you have to be ready to change if you're ever going to even consider doing coaching. It's usually a good sign when someone pops in is like hey, Joel or Aaron. I'm interested in doing a coaching program. And then we start to really walk through that conversation and we get to the what do you think about you know, doing this Oh, man, it sounds like a lot of time. Yep. And so it's a longer conversation that I'm going to have with somebody. But the short answer right now on this podcast is that's exactly why you need to be doing this program. Because that's your objection, time is not the issue. It's how we're making decisions is the lack of having good systems, and rituals and habits daily, weekly, monthly, to prioritize, manage your time manage your tasks. And that's where we have, we have to solve that hence, once again, how this has become the killing leadership Crazy Cycle episode, we've got to solve that if we're actually going to achieve the goals that you really want to achieve, which is to continue to grow your company, to grow your team, add a new product, add a new service, operate with excellence, take better care of your customers, or whatever or solve the problems you're living with today. We've got to get past this time objection. And which is more, it's just a personal problem more than anything else, because you we haven't learned or you're not yet implementing really great systems and processes to solve that problem.
Chris LoCurto 31:09
Yeah, and if I can use my 32nd rebuttal, again, something that Joel pointed out, when you think about it, if you have, let's just look at personality styles, Brian, your personality style, you're super task oriented, in so many ways, right? There are things that you've brought to the table that immediately because for me, we have 14 bajillion subscriptions and software things that we use, I'm always like, no more, nothing new, nothing. Let's use the stuff that we have. And the reason why is because people can go, oh, this new thing, and then it doesn't get used, oh, this, we got this amazing new things that we got to use it nope, it doesn't get used. It's a waste of time, money, energy, right. But there have been things that you've brought to the table that you're like, hey, this is so much easier to do it this way. This is a better process. This is more efficient for us. And so as you brought that to the table, it's taken me getting out of, you know, owner CEO, not super task focused role and going. Is it benefiting the team? Is that better for what we're accomplishing, even if I don't use it? Because again, there's a lot of stuff that I don't use in my role, because I shouldn't be doing it. My focus is on leading people, teams, events, all that kind of stuff. And because you've brought those to the table, and we've taken a hard look at it and went Yep. That's smarter. That's a better way. So along with what Joe was saying is Yes. Get you've got to give the tools. However, if you if you're hiring people that are smarter than you, they may be able to bring things to the table that you go out. Well, that would be way better and easier than the way that I've been doing.
Brian A 32:49
All right. Well, I have zero rebuttal. With all that. I praise. I will just say yes.
Chris LoCurto 32:57
On the 5% in the background have any rebuttal.
Brian A 32:59
That is fat. Fat Jane. That's not her first name Jane is but anyway, she's just monitoring me as I do. See, so she's she's a little fluffy today. All over feeding you cat owners out there. I love my cats and I try not to overfeed them. Okay, we are done. That's a wrap. And I hope you enjoyed this. I'm going to let Chris use his his one liner that we close out the show with but we will have a couple more of these three rules to something something something coming up.
Chris LoCurto 33:41
Well, folks, hopefully this has helped you today. Take this information, change your leadership, change your business, change your life, feed your cats well and join us on the next episode.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai