You probably use some kind of Job Description in your recruiting and hiring processes, right?
But, what are you using in order to keep your team members on track once they’re on board?
Maybe you’ve had your folks ask questions like: “Am I doing a good job”, “Am I doing the right things”, or “What would you want me to do differently”? These are great questions!
But what they indicate is that your process is missing something important. Enter KRAs.
Maintaining excellence, holding folks accountable to goals, and coaching them towards higher performance require something more than just task lists and project assignments.
That’s why we talk so much about KRAs, or Key Result Areas. In fact, we do tons of coaching and training along this line in order to help leaders discover the benefits of this tool.
So, from time to time, we like to revisit this topic and tease out different aspects that we haven’t covered before, as well as help people see what they’re missing out on.
KRAs, which are sometimes referred to as Key Responsibility Areas, is a huge asset to leaders wanting to create a high-performance culture on their teams. But not only that!
While KRAs help defines goals, they also provide the means to measure them. Remember, goals must be actionable, obtainable, and also quantifiable. That’s where Job Descriptions fail.
Joined once again in the studio by Brian, we take a look at some of our own client’s questions and comments about using KRAs on their teams. We also address this question head-on, Why Can’t I Just Use A Job Description?
What we discover may surprise you! Especially as we dig into the benefits that leaders receive from having to think through the vision and goals for each team member’s role.
Chris LoCurto 0:10
Welcome to the Chris LoCurto show where we discuss leadership and life and discover that business is what you do, not who you are. Welcome to the show, folks, I hope you're having a fabulous day, wherever you are. Now, if you've listened to the show for any amount of time, if you're in one of our mastermind groups, or if you've attended one of our quarterly or annual events, then you've likely heard about K RAS key result areas. It is a must for every leader and for every team member, that they provide K RAS key result areas, because this is both a roadmap and a destination for the role on your team. Now we're gonna we're gonna break this apart. We talked about this a lot. But joining me on the show today from beautiful Sicily. No, no explosions from Mount Aetna. What's so glad he's still with us? Is bright Alex, Brian, welcome to the show.
Brian A 1:12
Every time it's a privilege, Chris discount.
Chris LoCurto 1:15
Every time is another day, you didn't get covered up by him. Okay, no. So we talked a lot about KRA, but we've had some great comments or questions or confusion, all three that have come from some of our clients. So Brian is going to jump in and kind of talk about some of those things and kind of hit some of those questions, and then we will, we'll unpack all of this fun stuff. So Brian, let me turn it over to you.
Brian A 1:47
Yeah, well, gosh, where to begin, I mean, you know, K, RAs are becoming more of a standard household name. In most, you know, corporations, most businesses, you're likely familiar with the idea of a KR, a key results area, because we understand that there is more involved and at risk, when you only have an outline and a bullet point of tasks that need to be accomplished. And, you know, those things are helpful when you're when you're using I don't know, a different platform to to look for hires. And you've got to explain a little bit about the role so people can match up. Okay, does my experienced as my skill set does all of that match what this employer is looking for, but after they're in, and let's say that there's a hire, that you're bringing on board? What do you do, then? I mean, that job description, you know, to a degree becomes obsolete, because it's not just about tasks. There are certain expectations and all of that, I mean, probably 10 years ago, it wasn't as well known as it is today. But still, there is some confusion over okay, if I've got a job description, why do I need a carrot? Why can't I just use my job description? And so I wanted to pull this out from one of our clients, some comments that they had made, not too long ago, they said, the software developers on my team kept asking me things like, Am I doing a good job? Am I doing the right things? What do you want me to do differently? And my, my initial reaction says the client was surprised, I thought they should know exactly how well they were doing, right. I mean, we had a job description. On further reflection, I realized it was me who had not been clear. And I had a well defined sense of job responsibilities different than a job description in my head, but had never stated them explicitly. And so, you know, if you've only got a job description for your hires, then you're likely in the very same position as this client. So Chris, we'd love if you would unpack for us some of the differences here, and what is this client talking about? And is this common? Do you see this with other folks that you take through strap plans and do coaching with and all of that?
Chris LoCurto 4:19
And Brian, I would love to answer that question. And I will do so when we come back right after this. Oh, the cliff
Joel Fortner 4:24
hanger. Hey, leaders, this is Joel Fortner VP of leadership development at Chris LoCurto's Company. I have some questions for you. Do you as a leader feel like you are caught up in a Crazy Cycle of stress and tasks that never ends week to week? Do you ever have to deal with tough conversations with team members and you sit at home the next day the night before worried about how's it gonna go? What am I going to say? What are they going to say? Can I think fast enough on my feet? Is it going to be a total failure or you experiencing culture problems or that stuff that just breaks down trust and unity on your team? Well, if you're if you can relate to any of this, this is a pretty typical leadership story and situation. Here's the thing, though it doesn't have to be that way. And we can help you solve these things, we can help you become the leader that solves these problems and leads 13th to greater success. I want to introduce you to the key leaders program. This is an ongoing leadership development program that gives you the lesson track coaching and accountability. You need to become the leader you can become to actually implement what you're actually learning in this program. Things Fall Apart without great leadership and intentionality. If you want to solve the problems that are holding you back from being a great leader, we can help you with this program. Get in touch with Joel, Chrislocurto.com.
Chris LoCurto 5:56
Alright, folks, we're back in our answering questions on KRA, we're answering questions on job descriptions and K arrays, key result areas. Many say key results area, it's either way it depends on doesn't really matter how you say it, right? The concept is, this is a key result that we want from the team members. So let me kind of explain. Again, and everybody who's been doing KRA wants to hear the definition again, because many times this is one of the toughest things to put in place. We call this the accountability gap. All right, the place where you expect something of somebody, you've given them a job description, on what they're supposed to do, here's the tasks on what you're supposed to do. Here in my mind as a leader is what it's supposed to look like, and the person doesn't get there. And we call this the task result gap. Because what a leader or an owner has in mind of what something should look like. And what they've told the person to do, they give the person a job description, they give the person a list of tasks, here's how to do this job in their mind. They know what the job should look like, this is the result that I'm expecting it to look like, here's the tasks that I've given you, the person cranks out the tasks but doesn't get to the result. Well, that's that that gap in there is the lack of accountability. Right, that accountability that's not showing in there is the thing that's keeping that person from getting there. Well, what does that mean? When you understand that telling a team member or giving a team member, you know, Brian, you've got while you have a lot of D, you have a lot of C, if you're in C mode, and I give you tasks, if you're stuck in that C mode, all you hear is the specific task. Chris said do this. And especially with somebody who is stuck in a high C mode, right? If they don't get out of that? Well, I knocked out exactly what you said to do. Yeah, but remember, I was saying it's supposed to look like this. Yeah, but you didn't tell me how to get there. You told me to do this thing over here. And what happens is, is that if we do not help somebody to see the result, I'm pointing out the seeds, because they're one of the best examples a Heisey needs to see the 30,000 foot view to be able to do the FIFO job right, then you know how this?
Brian A 8:21
Yeah, let me let me just chime in there because I can say for for the C's? Yeah, I've had employers in the past where they would do a dive right into some of those tasks. And I would feel lost, I would feel like I don't know what is happening right now. All I can say is that I'm feeling flooded and overwhelmed with a series of details, but I don't know how it how it all fits together. You know, you've heard that old story about somebody passing by a house under construction, they see a plumber out there, they stop and ask, well, how how big is this house gonna be? I don't know. Well, what about this? And what about that, and they don't, they don't have any concept. You know, they're not the architect. They're just doing their one role. But it sounds like what you're saying with this idea of passing on not just the task and the immediate details for executing this specific task, but you're talking about a bigger picture, where you're involving them in the output of all that the outcome of all that, so that they're not just going in blind to do a to b, but they understand how it fits together in in the hole in a larger picture, which, you know, you would maybe you wouldn't think that maybe somebody wouldn't think that for a see is important to see the larger picture, but it's so important because then I don't get lost in all the minutiae of the details so quickly.
Chris LoCurto 9:46
Well, 75% of all other personality styles don't struggle as much right? Because the D He doesn't care. She doesn't care. You know, the high D personality style. You asked me to do a thing I'm gonna do the thing. Don't even care if it's part of a bigger picture, it's not a big deal. The I doesn't care, the S care somewhat, it needs to see somewhat of a bigger picture, but their focus is more on is everything gonna be okay? If this comes out, you know, how is this going to fail? And what's it going to look like? And is it going to hurt somebody in the process? The C is I don't understand what you're saying, I'll never forget the tie. We were doing an event. And I was giving you direction on stuff. But I was like, hey, bride, I was like, hey, the scent, I was given saying specifically the sentence and you kept repeating it back. I saw I said it, and you repeat it back the same? You said it out loud. And I was like, yes. So I said it again. And then you said it out loud. Again, I can see the confusion. And after you said it the second time, I realized that you were saying the sentence in the sentence without the context of the visual. Did I mean it was it? I could see how confusing it was. And so then I pointed to the visual and you're like, Oh, got it. Okay. And I had to
Brian A 11:00
tag my maids made it make sense. Yeah,
Chris LoCurto 11:03
totally. I had to listen to the sentence. I was saying to you and go, Yeah, I get why he doesn't get that. Right. Because he's taking it literally worked for me. If you said that same sentence to me, I'm going to, I'm going to flood the visual into it. What does this piece and this piece mean? You go the high C brain if you're stuck in C, now, if you're in D mode, you don't have that same situation. But that, that high C brain goes literal word for word for word. This doesn't make any sense to me. So this is why this is so important. It's not just the C's, we're specifically talking about the C's. But here's what I want you to know, folks, this is every single personality style, the personality style doesn't even matter. It's the person if you have an expected result of something. As somebody who leads multiple businesses, as somebody who's done many major projects, it never surprises me that if I even just assume somebody gets what I'm saying that the result doesn't come out the way that I expect it to be. So for me, I will tend to over communicate the daylights out of something, just in case, right. So I mean, even to the point of asking questions, do you understand that? Does that make sense? So what are we talking about? What is the key result area? So a to answer that, let me go to what a job description is. A job description is essentially describing how to do the job, this is a job, this is how you do the job, right? So it is essentially saying, here's the function of the job, if that makes any sense, right? This is what we want you to do. Now, obviously, you don't write it when we put together job description, we don't put in every single task that you must do every second of the day. It's the big areas. It's the big bulky stuff. It's the it's the things that we still expect you to use your brain and think about. But here's the things we feel like you need to know from that. So if I was running a care, right, today, I have my job description. Now, this is the most important key in if you're if you're not listening to this, it's going to be confusing, you've got to get this most important key. From the job description, I have to ask myself, what is the result or results that I expect? So if Brian Alex does A, B, C, and D, what do I expect it to look like? This is the result of you doing this job, Brian, I want it to look like this over here. So if I can say that show it to you, you see the result, then you have a exponentially greater chance at getting to the result. If I don't give you a result, and this happens all the time, all business owners who have been doing KRAs for years experienced this and struggle with this as well. If I don't give you the result that I expect of you, then what tends to happen is I come back upset that you didn't get to this result going What the crap was going on. And you're going but I did my job. No,
Brian A 14:19
I did. This,
Chris LoCurto 14:21
I did exactly what you told me to do. Look, it's in my KRA using my air quotes. But the problem is, is that we filled out a Whole KRA of job description and not actual results. So people thinking they're doing KRA , right doing a key result area. Instead, do a job description on steroids, and it just looks and sounds even better, but it's still task. It's not result. And this is where we have that task result gap, right? And that's where you kick the accountability in place if you actually give them A result and you're able to explain it to them, and they can see how to get there, and they can understand what it looks like, then they can go from the task and get to the expected result as well. So that is the importance of it, if you can get that piece and understand the key result itself. So let's say, well, let's just take one of our live events, people, one of the key result areas for Dakota, in our live events is that she sets up our next level lives, she sets up the facilitator for success to be able to pull off the events, without us having to go back and, you know, find things fixing, we need to be set up for success to do a successful event. Well, what goes with that as a lot of tasks, right. So if what I said was, the key result is, is that the facilitator has everything they need? Well, believe it or not, that is a good result. But if it doesn't point out, that I still need to pull off a successful event, or let's say, the task, the key result says, the facilitator has, you know, all of their pens, and, and, you know, dry erase board markers and all of those things, well, that's still a task, that doesn't give me the result of the event being pulled off successfully by the facilitator, right. So a person could go in there, do the things that they believe are right, a facilitator steps in, goes to do the event, and then is like, Oh, well wait a second, I don't have this, or how come this isn't here, or, Hey, you know, food wasn't done today. And so now we've got to take this person out and go, you know, to a restaurant and whatever, if they can't see what the successful execution of the event looks like, then as far as they did all of their tasks, right. So if I choose that and put it as a result, the result is that the facilitator is able to successfully execute a full next level life and you know, give more details into that piece there. Then they can see what and explain what it looks like to be a successful event, then they can do the tasks and then think for themselves, what's missing? It's gonna hold them back, what's going to keep them from being successful? What else do they need? So by doing that, Katherine, who is Dakota's leader, who's done this for a couple years herself, has been able to think ahead when something like let's say, somebody's coming to an event and a lot of know, they their plane is light, while she starts adjusting things she knows to adjust, she needs to think for herself, she doesn't sit there and go, Well, I guess I'll just leave that up to Chris or Joel, she'll start making adjustments, or we had some folks that came in and had to drive back to Alabama after the event. And their event got done early. So they had lunch, but it was stuck in between like a lunch and dinner time. And so she packed up a bunch of stuff and gave it to them to hit the road with so that they had food on the road for this three hour drive that they were doing. Just thinking through what does that look like? Right? Yeah. And so that makes the expectation that I have clear in her mind that it's not just do a task. It's more, what else is there?
Brian A 18:27
Well, it sounds like yeah, just to interject here, it sounds like the it makes the the job position itself and that person, it gives them the ability to be more intuitive about what's going on, because they see the bigger result that they're really after that the task help them get there. So the tasks are contained inside of that result. But the result is larger than that. And so it's you know, back to that the plumber and this construction site, if he's been talking to the architect, and and the architects saying, well, we want a room over here and this over there, he's able to intuitively say well, then, oh, you maybe you also want this because that would make it a lot easier than if we put our you know, water wall here. And we do this and I know nothing about plumbing. So I'm just making up stuff. But I imagine like water was fantastic. I think I got that from a movie. But anyway, the point is, it makes him so much more intuitive and they're able to take ownership. So Katherine Dakota is able to take ownership of that and go okay, if I'm responsible for the success of this, you know, coordinator having everything they need to do their job, and I'm going to set them up for success. They can begin thinking beyond the tasks, they can think about the outcome, they can improve that outcome and even you know, take taking ownership of it and intuitively taking it beyond what you had imagined because now you've got somebody else on your team that's yoked together. Other than pulling in the same direction for an even greater result?
Chris LoCurto 20:04
Yes. And now, this is where the most important part of having a care ray comes in. So you might be hearing all this and go, Well, that's great. I just need to explain the result in I don't really need a que, right? Nope, no, no, no, no, no, no, here's the most important part of having a care array in place. The accountability. So as you just pointed out, there, there, it injects a certain level of personal accountability, because I can now see the picture, I now know what it looks like, I know the destination, I know where I'm going, I see the tasks that I have. And so if I've knocked out all of my tasks, and I don't have a water wall,
Chris LoCurto 20:51
if I've talked, I've I've knocked out all of my tasks, and there's no water wall in place. Maybe that's it, you know, but I know the result is they want this, this and this, then something's not right. Worst case scenario, I'm going to ask a question, hopefully, I'm going to ask a question and go, Hey, guys, you told me to do this. But you said it should look like this. But do you want this should this be in there, and then all of a sudden, a certain level of personal accountability is injected, if the person is willing to take personal accountability, personal responsibility, then great, there's that accountability, here's the great thing for the leader, it becomes accountability for the leader to lead the person. So let me just dive into this. This is, as far as I am concerned, the greatest piece of a que era. So we have phenomenal champions on our team, we can tell them to go in a direction, they're gonna go do it right there. They're amazing. And they knock stuff out, that's great. They're in our culture, they're in our environment, they understand that kind of stuff, but they don't they're gonna ask questions. That's great. What happens if somebody isn't doing that, right? Like what happens if you have somebody on a team, who isn't going to think for themselves or not very self motivated, whatever, or maybe you have somebody who's great, but they're still just not getting it. The great thing about the K array, is as I give a person time to operate in this role, I sit down with them 30 days later, I go over the care raise however many I've got, you know, we don't want a ton three or four is great. Sometimes it might only be two, some, you really don't want to get five to seven, if you know if you could stay away from that, that's great. Because these are the key results of the of the role. But I can now sit down with that person and go, Hey, let's take a look at the number one care array. And let's ask ourselves, how well are you getting to this result? And now I get to grade that? Right? What if I look at that, and I can say this person is not nailing this thing? 100% then I have to start this is where the most important piece kicks in, that people are afraid to do I get to hold the team member accountable? Why is that so great? Because believe it or not, in the beginning phases of of writing carries, you're gonna find out, it's probably your fault. So if I looked down at that key result area, and I say, how come we're not getting to this? And the person says, well, it's really difficult to do that, because I don't have this software program. So it takes me four times the amount of time to accomplish that. And, man, if I got the software, I could do it so much faster. Uh huh. Great, something I didn't anticipate. A lot of entrepreneurs or leaders can go knock something out. And they never needed that software program. But then you pass it on to somebody else who's a different personality style. And oh, my gosh, it makes it easier for them. And then they can do it 10 times better than the person did before that great software. Oh, that's my fault. Always assume the reason why they're not pulling up the K ray in the beginning is the leaders fault. So I will go through every excuse, or reason that they have, and I will solve it. How come this well, this person over here, I keep trying to set an appointments to work with them to get this thing done, and I can't get on their calendar. Great. Let me go work on that. I don't have the right tool to make this thing happen. Great. Let me work on that. Well, you know, you originally told me my greatest priorities are this, this and this. So I haven't been getting to this one yet. Oh, let me jumble your priorities. I should have been talking to you about priorities. Whatever the reason is, I then get to go. take on the responsibility solve every issue until there is no leadership issues left. Right, because there may be and a lot of leaders just automatically assume the person sucks because they're not getting it done. And yet, you may find out you're the one who set up a bad carry or you didn't provide them with the things that they needed. I love it. And the reason why I do is because I want to provide all of those pieces and knock out every possible reason or excuse ahead of time, then what's left over after all of this is the accountability of the team member, if I've given them every tool, if we've solved every problem, if we figured out everything that's holding them back from, you know, accomplishing this, then the only thing left is now, why is the team member not able to get to it? That's where the accountability then shifts. And again, if you've done a great job, and it's a great person, chances are you've solved problems are able to rock on. If it's somebody who's not going to do a great job. Now, it's glaringly obvious.
Brian A 25:42
Let me Yeah, that's excellent point. And I want to go back and just tease out a little bit about what you were saying about the benefits to the employer. On that side of things. This is continuing from the same client, his comments. The other side of that coin for him was, he says, additionally, writing out K IRAs made me a better manager. By taking the time to really think through what I expect from my team, I realized, I actually had a number of gaps in understanding my own expectations and verbalizing these expectations. He says, By writing them in clear, concise language forced me to really think through what I wanted from them. And so it sounds like it, there's a there's a two way street here to the K RAs, whereas the job description ultimately is just, you know, here, go do these tasks that I've laid out. But the person doesn't understand why how it fits into the bigger picture. It's hard to be intuitive. They can't take ownership. And like you say, there's very little accountability with that. But on the Caray, when we're looking at a larger, a larger paradigm and a larger perspective of what's going on in the hall, how they contribute to the whole, I imagine it's much more fulfilling for both the manager and the employee, to have those outcomes spelled out so literal and concise and clear that there's ownership and buy in on both sides. There's accountability on both sides. And there's probably a greater sense of fulfillment on both sides when that plumber understands what he's contributing to the whole picture, and understands how he's bringing his part, his element to do. And it's not just these little tasks that he's getting a paycheck for, but he's contributing to something greater, there's a higher level of fulfillment, I imagine. Right?
Chris LoCurto 27:33
Yeah. So you brought up, you know, I'm sure you see this in things, you know, like strat plan, and all that kind of stuff. So let me take it to a much higher level, right. So this is the basic and the reason why we're hitting the basic level, again, is because this is difficult, I will tell you, I still whenever I have a new leader, either myself or Joel, who, you know, is our new president of our company much deserved elevation to President in our company, one of us will go through with a new leader and still make sure that they are actually hitting the care race, is it an actual result. So even leaders that we will have on the team for quite a while, we'll have them bring it to the table. Because even though they're in our culture, even though they're around this stuff, it's still difficult to get your brain to go result result result result result now, so let's take it to the next level, right or even a few levels higher. When we do something like a strat plan, we say all care rays need to be pointed at this strat plan outcome. So the expected outcome, we're taking the whole business, and we're pointing the whole business in one unifying direction, which most businesses are doing what we call a shotgun approach. They're running in 17 different directions, which is a colossal waste of resources. Right? If you look at how big your team is, if you're doing a shotgun approach, that's why your team is so big, because you're losing resources left and right. Right. So for us that our company, we're constantly pointing people in the same direction. So we accomplish more, we don't have to keep hiring people to go make some other direction be successful. We want to be unified, we want to be going the same direction. With all that being said a strat plan does that it points people in the same direction. So inside the strap line, especially the first one, what we do is we tell people, all K arrays need to be pointing towards this strapline, like we will even suggest to people how and you know, the K rays on our team have a blip in there about how this role aligns with our strap plan. What it does to pull off our own strap plan and we do strap plan once or twice a year in our own business
Chris LoCurto 30:00
So why is that so important? Because now what I get to do is instead of just holding one role accountable for an expectation, I get to paint the destination for the company, I get to figure out what the destination for the company is. And then make sure that every resource is pointed in that direction. So now if I know where we're headed as a company, what and I'm not just everybody always thinks numbers because that's, that's the worst destination for you to set for your company is a number, let the number be a result of the other amazing accomplishments you do. And it will be higher than any number you ever set. I've taught so many companies on this, it's crazy, right? Don't let it be a number, let the number be part of it. But let it be a result of all the incredible things you're going to do with the team. So if I have this great destination, the next destination, you can have one mission, but 700 different destination keep creating new destinations as you get there. Without this next great destination, then I get to look at every single role and say, How does Brian, Alex, get us as a company there? You know, how does Joel Fortner Erin west? How go team member, team member team member team member team member? How do these people get our company to this destination? What is the results that must happen for them to complete the strap plan results. So with every strat plan, we have the expected key deliverables, the key results of the strategy that we're putting together the strat plan that we're putting together. So we have these amazing results. And it's usually six major results that are going to take anywhere from six months to 12 months to execute, because they're still doing their jobs. These results are expected if we pull off this strat plan. Now I get to look at every team member and say do you align? What if you don't? What if you're slightly off? What if you're doing something that doesn't get us there? What if you're doing something that doesn't matter anymore? We don't even need that anymore? What if I've not gotten you a clearer vision of where your role is going and how you have a greater purpose than just doing your role, your role as a part of pulling this off? Now, all of that if you can see this, and I'm hoping that I'm explaining this well enough that people can get this in their head. And Brian asked me any questions if it doesn't make a lot of sense. But if you can visualize now, every resource has a expected results that are pointing towards your company's expected results. This is where people blow it out of the water. This is where companies explode. Because now it is so unified. It is so intentional. It is the resources are being used at a greater rate value, everything that now we are knocking stuff out, you know, we've had clients that have come through said, I've done the same over year after year after year, and then went through this and knocked out four times this amount of stuff in a short period of time. It's because of all of that. So questions, thoughts, comments on any of that?
Brian A 33:17
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you're saying there's, there's a lot of synergy that can come out of understanding the key array, both on both sides for the manager, and also for the employee, the team member. It's also it's clarifying. And it delineates, like a mission statement, would it you know, we can we can judge ourselves by our mission statement to understand are we going in the right direction kept thinking of The Godfather, quote, all of our ships must sail in the same direction. Yeah. But it sounds like it's it's delineating because if we're after those results, there might be tasks that we add, or that we drop off. I remember, you know, sitting in our team members all the time, and we'd go through an event, we'd miss something or we change something, you know, the next level life coach no longer needs a paper, you know, sheet on the wall, or the the marker, we're going to change to this. And so the task may change, but the outcome is still the same and can actually grow. How do we make sure that they're being successful, and they're going to the next level, and so those tasks come to bear, they're serving that outcome, but that outcome is trained on and is serving that greater direction that the company is going. So it's clarifying. Its unifying their synergy from that it's also delineating because, at any given time, we can delete a task that no longer functions to serve that greater outcome that we're after. And, you know, to me, that's, that's a great distinguishing factor between what a job description does x is kind of that melter on the front end, helps the team member know if they're going to be able if they have the skill set, if they have the experience, etc, whatever's necessary, are they going to enjoy that they're going to hate it because of their personality stuff. But once they're in, this is the relationship between employer employee now, then it's a two way street on this carre and it can be adjusted. But all of those tasks live to serve this because that care a serves the overall mission of the company. Does that sound? Right? Would you push it out?
Chris LoCurto 35:30
No, absolutely. So let's go one more place on this. I mean, there's so many aspects that we can discuss on this, but I want to hit the most important pieces. So let's use you as an example. If you don't have a vision for where you're going, how do you view your job compared to if you do have a vision for where you're going? So like, if you just given a handful of tasks, and Hey, Brian, go do these things. You don't know where you're going. You don't know how these fit in? How does that? How do you feel as a team member? Compared to Hey, Brian, here's the overall vision, go get us there with these tasks? How does that make you feel?
Brian A 36:09
I'm just flipping burgers at McDonald's at that point, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't do
Chris LoCurto 36:15
those in Sicily, I didn't know that they do.
Brian A 36:20
I cannot tell you if they're any better. I think there's a lot of mythology built up that McDonald's and Burger King are better over here. I have not seen that result. And every Italian I know, says K ski fall, which means how gross but anyway, point is, I would just be doing some monotonous role. And I wouldn't understand my value to the team. And there's you know, that assessment of the value, the synergy, the unification, that sense of fulfillment, that I'm contributing something greater to the team. And that can adjust. I mean, you know, in those outcomes, to me, that helps me be intuitive, it helps me think well hold on, if our outcome is this, and these are the tasks, what if we take this out, and we add these two instead? Because that's going to help and you know, it's a well, it's just problems. Our client, you know, was saying it made me a better manager, because when I really took the time to think through my expectations, I, I saw that I had gaps in my understanding, just like you were saying, Oh, I'm gonna solve that for the team member, because we need a software or I'm gonna solve this because there's a communication gap going on here. Let's bridge that. And you're setting up your team members for success. So that the outcome on the back end is they're setting up the company for success. Yeah, I mean, it's so serving them in that way. It's beautiful.
Chris LoCurto 37:46
Everything you're saying is fantastic. Because you're part of a mission, you've got a purpose all of those pieces. What if you're just flipping burgers, do you don't have all that vision, that destination that the ability to make changes give you know, create solution, all that you just are flipping burgers? What happens with Brian Alex?
Brian A 38:07
Well, I tell you what happens on a on a team with Brian and Alex. Their their communication gaps, there's the tendency to silo and isolate. There's a sense of frustration, and and like, what am I doing this for? I think all of it's a breakdown, things start to break down and the task becomes an end to itself. And it becomes this tug of war between an employee and the employer will I did what you said, just leave me alone, stop hassling me, don't hold me accountable to nothing, you know, because I can't see beyond the little things that I'm doing. And that you know, and you you experienced this all the time on teams, when you bring them through strat plan, how many of those team leaders are are pitted one against another because their teams don't have to raise even they don't have care raise. There's that tendency to silo and, and isolate. And there's confusion and communication gaps, and disunity, all of that kind of stuff comes to play.
Chris LoCurto 39:07
Yeah, and if you take anybody who's a champion, if anybody is worth anything, and they should be on that team, and unfortunately, I've seen a lot of leaders lose champions, because they thought the champion was not a champion, only to find out later on, it's that they didn't set that person up while that person didn't really understand what they were doing. Any champion who doesn't have a vision, who doesn't have a destination who doesn't have a purpose is going to go find one. And it will not be in your business. Right? They're going to try and make it happen in your business. They're going to try and see if they can't get you to help them to have a greater vision, a greater mission, greater purpose. But ultimately, what they see is Nope, just two tasks. That's all I have for you that eventually that champion is gonna go forget this. I want to go find someplace where I feel valued. Where I feel like I do have a purpose bigger than just doing any tasks. So that is the reason or those are some of the reasons. Some of the more important reasons that we feel like every single person on a team should have a K array. Every person should have a job description, obviously. But don't stop there, start there. Start with, you know, usually what we will tell people to start with a job description. So you see what you're expecting them to do of the role, and then build out the greatest results, you can somewhat reverse engineer this, I do not suggest people trying this in the beginning. Because you're probably going to screw this up, you will screw this up. If you've been doing this for a long time, you can reverse engineer what the results and then put together what the tasks are to get to the results, please, high ds that are listening to this that just went okay, I'm gonna do that from now on, don't get really good at doing berets the right way. And then eventually, you'll be so good at it. When you've done, you know, 3040 of these things, and you're the one who's done them, then you'll be able to start seeing what's the result I expect to the role? And then reverse engineering and what's so what are the things that get us to the result, it's tougher to go that way. So please don't start that way. Biggest thing is, make sure the result is an actual result. Not a job description. But Chris, you say that we can put job descriptions under the result. It's okay, I don't, I'm not going to fight you on that I'd prefer you didn't. If you need to, that's okay. As long as the result is a result, and not just a, you know, funky looking job description, right? Make sure that you've got that. And then if you do not come back and meet with that team member on a monthly basis. So when they are killing it, stretch it out, do it every two months, every three months, every six months, I usually wouldn't go, you know, try not to go, you know, less than twice a year, unless it's just one static roll that you can do once a year. Because they also want to know that, that you know that they're doing a great job and all that kind of fun stuff. But hold them accountable. If they're not getting to the results that you expect. What's necessary, what can we do about that?
Brian A 42:17
Yeah, let me just add, if you're listening to this, and you're feeling a little bit lost just about Karis. How do I even begin? Let's do this. If on our website, we've got some great tools and resources for you. I'm going to put a link in the blog post associated with this episode on the site, so that you'll be able to go to Chris ricardo.com. Find this episode that we've been titled, Why can't I just use a job description. I'm going to put some hyperlinks in there for you to be able to download sample K IRAs and find out more information if you're ready to get started. So that you have a starting point. And you have a couple samples in front of you to use as you begin this journey of creating K RAS for your team.
Chris LoCurto 43:03
That's fantastic. That is fantastic. All right, folks. Well, hopefully this has helped you today if this has created more questions. Great. Send it to us podcast at Chris lakota.com. We want to hear it because our goal is to get you to success. That's the reason why we do this right. That's the reason why we even have this show is we want you to get to success. If there's other confusing things you want to know about podcast at Crisler credit.com and we will try and get those answered as well. Please do us a big favor go write us go give us a comment on iTunes and, and let the world know so that we can help them get this information as well. That really helps us to reach more people. Well, as always, we want you to take this information, change your leadership, change your business, change your life, and join us on the next episode.