How To Become A Leader Worth Following
Folks, on the show today we have a very special guest!
Patrick Devereux is a husband, father, leader of leaders, and medical professional. His leadership growth, and its impact on his team and the business has been incredible to watch.
There’s a lot to learn from Patrick.
He has been killing it as a leader, in the past year he has…
- Opened another new business location and put a brand new leader in charge
- Grown team buy-in, allowing him to raise up new leadership
- Created alignment on the team to bring focus to the most important areas
- Stopped overwhelm taking over his personal life
- Instilled high quality communication with his team
- Eliminated what’s not important
Learn how to get these leadership results:
Learn how to cut the noise, and do what works for your leadership and business.
Continue reading for full transcript:
Chris LoCurto: Today, you’re going to hear from a phenomenal leader on how he’s turned his team and leadership around. More on that coming up next.Welcome to the Chris LoCurto show where we discuss leadership and life and discover that business is what you do, not who you are.
Chris LoCurto: folks on the show today we have a very special guest. Patrick Deveraux is a husband, a father, a leader of leaders, and a medical professional. His leadership growth and its impact on his team and the business has been incredible to watch. Now I wanted to bring him on the show because there’s a lot to learn from Patrick. He has been killing it as a leader. In the past year he has opened another new business location and put a brand new leader in charge. He’s grown his team’s buy in that’s allowing him to raise up new leadership, the alignment on the team, creating focus in the most important areas. And for him personally, there’s less stress and overwhelm. He’s been able to have high quality communication with this team and eliminate the things that are not important. So do me a favor. Welcome to the show. Patrick.
Patrick D : Chris. Thank you so much for having me. It’s my pleasure to be here today.
Chris LoCurto: The piece that we missed out in the, in the beginning here is what you just shared with me, which is the, hey, this is the killing the leadership crazy cycle office and Patrick moved his camera around his office and it’s clean. The papers are gone. The stuff is gone. Talk about that a little bit.
Patrick D : Oh, Chris. So much clarity. You know, my office really had turned into a storage room. I just kind of work wherever, you know, I don’t really have, you know, a lot of dedicated office space, but killing leadership crazy cycle…one of the things that taught in that lesson is, you’ve got to get in there and just touch every piece of paper and get this place cleaned up and organized and it took, you know, about half a day. And uh, I’ve just got so much clarity and less stress already. Just thinking about not having to figure out where different papers are. Uh, even though I had an idea where everything was, I, you know, it was, it was great to put hands on everything and get some clarity.
Chris LoCurto: And that’s the thing that we talk about in that lesson is, you know, when I did this a couple of decades ago, I tell people, take a Saturday because it’s going to take longer than you think. Did you think it would take you half a day?
Patrick D : I thought I was going to take six hours. I have six hours blocked out for us. Um, and it took me about three and a half.
Chris LoCurto: So you’ve got it done even faster. Which is good. People think it’s going to take 30 minutes to an hour. There’s no possible way, no way. You know, so book a Saturday or book a day or something like that. And I remember, like I say, 20 years ago I did this and I came in on Monday and the creativity in my brain, it was like I couldn’t stop thinking. My brain was clear because I had gotten rid of all the stuff that was stuck in my subconscious. And that’s just one of the many things we talk about in there. But how, how more clear do you feel right now?
Patrick D : I feel like I can do a whole lot more just in terms of productivity, just in terms of, um, you know, creativity. I just, like you said, I just, I feel just my brain is not having to filter through those things. You know, one of the things I took away from the previous event and previous times I’ve seen the lesson is that the state of your desk represents the state of your mind. You know, even if you know where everything is, it’s still, it’s your brain having to filter through it and not having to do that just feels so much better.
Chris LoCurto: Right? Absolutely. All right, so tell people what you do and where you are, all that kind of fun stuff.
Patrick D : Uh, I’m a pharmacist. I am a president of family medical services and we own four, retail pharmacies in the Birmingham area. Uh, we have one in Bessemer, which is the one that, I do manage one of those stores and that’s the Bessemer location as well as a leading the company. So I’m involved in the day to day dispensing, most every day in addition to leading the company, our other locations are somewhat spread out. There are actually about 45 miles or so apart except for our newest location, which we just opened last month, which is only about less than 10 miles away from me. And so I’m there pretty often, uh, but the other locations are a little bit more spread out. Uh, I’ve been with the company, I’ve been out of pharmacy school since 2005 at 24 years old. I joined the company as a, as a manager, uh, at our Bessemer location. So all of a sudden I’m, I’m a dispensing pharmacist and leading people at 24 and just about to turn 25 when I started, uh, and up and leading that location since 2006, actually, let me rephrase that. Chris. I’ve been managing since 2006. I’ve been leading since 2017 and I had to kind of change my mindset around managing versus leading. Um, but I, so I been managing a team since 2006 and then, and then I became the president of the company in 2017.
Chris LoCurto: Yeah. And you have done a phenomenal job at that. It has been a blast watching you, uh, really, uh, grow into that leadership role and really take on the task of not just leading but also training leaders. So question for you, why pharmacy?
Patrick D : Well, when I was 16 years old, I needed some gas money, started working in Eckerd drug in Florida and a was there for about a year and I actually had pretty much thought I was just going to follow my dad into his business. He’s a financial planner and I was there at Eckerd for about a year and I said, I really enjoy this patient connection is really something special. You know, us communicating and teaching patients how to use their medicines, how to be healthier, how to help family members who are overwhelmed with health concerns and medications. I saw that pretty on. I said, this is what I want to do. Um, and so that led me to Sanford University here in beautiful Birmingham, Alabama. Uh, and I thought I was going to basically graduate and move back to Florida and work for Eckerd and God had a different plan there. And I stayed in Birmingham and met my wife and was able to, uh, to join this great organization.
Chris LoCurto: Since we’re talking about leadership and you came out of pharmacy school, what did pharmacy school teach you about leadership?
Patrick D : Most of what I learned in pharmacy school with leadership. I learned a little bit about it in student organizations, leading student organizations, but I wasn’t really taught anything. You know, we, and all of the teaching that we had, the actual coursework had more to do with human resources and human resource management and labor laws and employment practices, things like that. So a lot of managing processes, a lot of those types of things, but no real, at least not in the curriculum of the pharmacy school. No real leadership.
Chris LoCurto: Yeah. I think that’s one of the, one of the toughest things. And obviously, I mean it would take so much more to add to, you know, the pharmacy school or you know, for doctors, for lawyers, for, you know, all these different, uh, aspects of having that leadership side. But it’s so difficult when folks leave and then you have people and it’s like, okay, well lead and your experience is anybody who’s led you before, you know, before that. That’s right. And so it makes it really difficult to know, okay, so this is what I know. I don’t know what great leadership looks like yet. And then trying to figure that out as you go. Now, what the limited leadership training when you get started, when did you realize that there was more that that leadership growth was needed and that you needed a better way to do things?
Patrick D : I would say it was probably about a two or three years before I took over as president. Um, I started learning a little bit more, actually started following youth in the Entreleadership days on the podcast and, and read the book and read a lot of other things that, that I thought would, would help with leadership. I realized then that what I had been doing so far was, was just managing people, managing processes. I was decently good at solving problems as a manager, but usually once they became problems, basically I was able to solve it and I wasn’t able to, to lead in a direction where we could have other solve problems and, and work toward a common goal or vision and makes the problem solving easier. And so just learning about all of these things through podcasts, through books, I said there is, there is, this is different, this is more to I, I’ve been managing this idea of leadership is just better and we need to be taking care of people who are taking care of our customers. We need to be taking care of them the same way.
Chris LoCurto: Yeah. You just said that one, it became a problem. Problem solving is something that you are able to do, right? That is an interesting thing that we find with a lot of leaders that coming into, you know, the program or the processes is that they do a really good job at solving a problem. But again, until it gets to be that problem, it’s that. Okay, well I guess I just do my thing. What did you find was the biggest challenge in being a leader at that time?
Patrick D : At that time, what I found out was that there was a huge deficit in our communication as a team. Um, by the time I was getting the problems coming to me, they were already full-blown three alarm, five alarm fires. Okay. You know, instead of having one on one time with the team focused time with them to ask questions and work through things. I think if I had done that early on, I would’ve avoided at least 75% of the problems I think I had to solve as a manager, you know, prior to learning about all this. And, um, it was just, again, putting out fires, putting out fires, putting out fires, and realizing that, you know, with just some better communication with more focused, proactive time to ask questions to see how things are going as opposed to waiting until it becomes an issue and blows up.
Patrick D : And what’s worse, Chris, is that when that did happen, my default response usually was I would put the fire out, but before the fire got too bad, I was hoping it would just go away. I basically put my head down and okay, they just don’t get along. They’re just, they just never got along. And we’re taking care of our customers and we’re making money, so it’s okay. I’m just gonna I’m just gonna put my head down and it’ll, it’ll, it’ll magically fix itself, you know? And, um, and then it would just blow up and just not a good way to lead.
Chris LoCurto: So going to school for pharmacy but not for fighting fires. You become a professional firefighter. That’s right. After having gone to pharmacy school. It is amazing how much, and I think again, it’s actually a great thing that you know how to solve the problems, but like you said, 75% of these issues probably could have been solved in a different way. If you jumped on them sooner, what answers did you need that you didn’t have?
Patrick D : I needed a way to lovingly guide people to doing the right thing. And I know that sounds weird, but it’s just, you know, when, when I was kind of learning about this stuff, when I first started reading about and learning about and listening to your podcasts and reading and doing these things, I’m like, well, let me just, I just got to figure out how to make this person get along with this person. I’ve got to figure out a way to get this person to do this thing over here. And that’s what I thought I needed. And, you know, once I started digging in and once I started doing the reading, doing the work, learning, making time to do that and in terms of personal growth and investing in that, I realized, yeah, this is, this is not as simple as this is do this and get this resolved or do this with this person. And then all of a sudden these two people will magically walk arm and arm together and get along forever. You know, those were things I thought I needed to do and learned that there was just a completely much, much deeper set of things that need to be addressed and processes, uh, and, and communication and vision, all of these things that need to really be in place before those things can be solved.
Chris LoCurto: Yeah. And you, like you said, your desire was to have a loving way. Why that? Had you been used to either that or the opposite or what were you used to before that?
Patrick D : I had worked for a couple of leaders that were very dominant and, uh, you know, actually one in particular that I burned out pretty quickly with. I was trying to, trying my best to not lead in that direction. But as you mentioned earlier, you know, when, when you’re, when you’re in this role for the first time at 24, 25 years old, you start automatically just leading the way that you’ve been. And, and I recognized, it you know, but I wasn’t really doing much about it. I was telling people what to do and then also putting my head down and hoping other problems would go away, which is also the other thing in leadership that I learned, through a different leader. And so really just knowing that, that I wanted to not have that result of burning people out of treating people like units of production. You know, I knew I wanted that early on. Um, and I knew that I would have loyalty, I would have wonderful customer service, patient experiences and just have a place for people enjoy coming to work is what I was trying to get to.
Chris LoCurto: Yeah. So folks listening to this, I want you to, I want you to hear this because the reason we have Patrick on today is because of how much he has implemented and how much he’s done. Because Patrick, you’ve done such a phenomenal job with this process and jumping in and doing this. And I think the thing that so many people struggle with, and I, I literally hear it from time to time, is I’ll have leaders that will say, why can’t I just tell them to do this thing? What do I have to hold their hand? How come they won’t just do and how come I can’t get them… And there’s all this like cognitive dissonance of, but I’m paying them. They should just do stuff and then they cannot figure out after 10, 20 years of, you know, saying the same thing over and over and over again. Why their business doesn’t change why they still have these problems. You had realized, well, there’s no point in standing here going, why can’t I get them to do their thing? I have to do something about it. And so how did your team respond when you started making changes? Was there, was there pushback? Did they accept it? How did that go?
Patrick D : It was a little bit of pushback. Honestly. The people that were that I thought would be most, um, combative with it I guess is a good way to say it. Um, actually found the door on their own. So most of the people that were not ready to embrace any changes I was making and I was pretty upfront about the things, the direction we were going, and different things that were going to change in terms of our culture, especially within this location. And they found the door themselves. I didn’t have to worry about removing anybody. And so we got our team down to a group of people that were excited, that were bought in that said, this is great. I wish we had done this years ago. Um, I have one, one team member, Chris, who’s been with me with first person I hired.
Patrick D : I hired her 12 years ago, after one of the people that I originally was managing left. And she and I have always had a good open dialogue. And she said to me when we started putting this process in place, you know, you are just so less stressed. And she actually said these words to me recently cause I feel like we’ve gotten the old Patrick back because we have put this process in. Some of that was team members leaving the needed to leave and some of it was now, now I’ve got a team that’s bought in. I’ve got a team that is loving on each other, loving on people, uh, and taking care of people the way that we’re supposed to, that we, that we had set out to do from the beginning.
Chris LoCurto: That is a big thing. And I know you’ve been mentioning that, that you’ve felt less stressed out. How much more from your side, looking at the team, looking at the growth, you know, how you know where they are now, how much more are you able to go, okay, I don’t have to be stuck to this business. 24, seven. I don’t have to be worrying about things. I, I’ve got teams, you know, I’ve got people that are taking care of things. How, what does that look like now?
Patrick D : Well, it is, it is unbelievably fantastic. I’m still here a good bit, but I’m not worried when I’m not here about patients not being taken care of or processes not being followed or these, these things. Now it’s just DNA. You know, they’re taking care of people, they’re communicating with each other. Most importantly, that was something we had to really work on was our internal team communication…is making sure that we’re not competing with each other. We’re helping each other. We’re here for the patient. We’re trying to get to this result that we’re trying to get to. And I hired a good friend of mine, actually. We go back 20 years and she started with me in April. I was concerned, you know, we had both had been concerned prior to her starting that it was going to be some issues with me being her leader boss, you know, whatever.
Patrick D : She came in and pretty early on and even just in the interview process could see this culture within this communication and this culture within our location, within our store. And you know, she said, I’m not worried about it now. I want in, I want this. And now between her and the rest of my team when I’m not even right now, like I’m not worried at all about what’s going on in the pharmacy next door because it’s just, it’s getting done with excellence and, and we’re taking care of each other. And one thing I’ll share, um, so Jennifer, who’s the pharmacist that I hired, she and I go back 20 years, even before pharmacy school, uh, at least before I was in pharmacy school. Um, her best friend passed away this morning. And, um, I said, you know, of course, you know, whatever we’ve got to do, um, we will make sure this is, we’re here for you.
Patrick D : We know where she is, we know where Suzanne is that’s her friend that passed away. But it is something that was automatic in the culture now with our team and with me today when this happened, we have a team huddle beginning of the week every week and we had it today and we talked about it and we prayed and we’re not worried about if Jen has to be gone for a couple of days this week. I mean, we, the automatic response is we’ve got her taken care of. We will lift her up. We will figure this out. We’re not even thinking about how were we going to have to do, we’ll get the pharmacy covered. And I think the old way, if I had been managing the old way, not that I wouldn’t be in a loving place right now with this, but I’d be panicking, what am I going to do? How am I gonna get this taken care of? Who am I going to staff the pharmacy with cause my week’s already booked. What am I going to do? I haven’t done any of that today. Chris and my team hasn’t either because they’re just like, we’ve got this, we’ve got this taken care of, we’re going to get this figured out and I’m even if I hadn’t been here today, they had figured this out.
Chris LoCurto: Gosh, so much there because first off it shows your heart because even back before you had put this stuff in place, you’re taking care of Jennifer. There are leaders out there that are so crazy caught in the leadership crazy cycle. I’ve literally heard team members that have said, I left that business because you know I lost a grandparent. You know I had to go to the funeral and I was told I couldn’t go and it’s like how in the world and I always ask the question, do you know why they said that? And the answer was because we’re too busy and I’m like there you have it. Now It could just be somebody who has no heart. It was a possibility. But I would assume that they would’ve left before that. But you know, I love that you would have taken care of Jennifer no matter what. But where you guys are now, when something, a crisis like this comes up for an individual, it’s not a crisis for the team. You can take care of Jennifer and you can take care of business because, you know, I’ve been doing this for almost 30 years. Uh, you know, in a few years it’ll be 30 years I’ve been leading. And one of the things that I’ve always had to share with my team is we will always, you know, somebody has an emergency or something, we’re going to take care of our team member. But the clients know that that happened. And you don’t go around and telling all the clients, hey, we had somebody who had, you know, who lost a loved one and they’re taking time off, therefore we’re gonna, you know, mess up your stuff right now. The client doesn’t care because they don’t know what happened. And you know, since you’re not going to go advertise it, you have to solve. You have to take care of, you have to, you know, get people in the right places. Take on somebody’s work that they were going to do.
Chris LoCurto: And so another thing I love is that, you know, like you just shared, your team didn’t, it wasn’t even a question. They know that they’re going to take care of Jennifer and that’s just powerful. So I love that. I’ve got, um, the leadership team, we all went to Israel last year, we were going for two weeks straight and I had so many people when we got back that are like, hey, how many fires did you have to put out? And it’s like, well, none. Like you gotta be kidding. I’m like, no, we, we do the stuff we teach. And so we literally had no fires. I think I handled the one email, my other leaders handled a couple, and that was literally in two weeks. Now when we got back, we had a bunch of emails that we had to go through zero fires.
Chris LoCurto: Even today, um, I’m talking with one of our clients because I’m heading out, uh, for all of you that have been waiting forever for me to write a book. Uh, I’m leaving here soon in a, in a couple of weeks and I’m going to go do that for an extended period of time and I’ll, I’ll share that with, uh, one of our clients. And he goes, man, what are you worried about, you know, happening inside of the, in the company. I’m like, literally nothing. He’s like, you don’t worried about being gone that long and not being, cause I’m not going to be in contact. I’m going to try as as much as possible to just stay focused on the writing because that’s how what I need to do. And I said, I’m literally not worried about anything. There’s no stress, there’s no fears. I have a solid team. And the thing I shared with him is, is like, you know, we, we literally do the stuff that we teach. It’s not just me, it’s the leadership team does this, it’s the team members that do this. So if something happens, I’m not worried about it. This team taking care of it, you know, and there was an absolute emergency, then they would get to me and we would take it from there. So I’m so proud of you for getting down the road in this journey of being able to, you know, not stress 24, seven
Patrick D : And it, and it carries over into family, you know, and I actually share one more thing about this crazy cycle and killing it because we’re going on a cruise in a couple of weeks. And, um, my plan right now is to, this is tough, but I’m going to do it literally leaving my smartphone in Birmingham, not taking it in the car, not taking it anywhere near it. I’m gonna buy like a $10 flip phone that someone can call me only if the building is on fire. Um, but I’m not gonna answer messages and emails. I’m going to live in the moment with these three kids and my family and never been able to do that. If I had not kind of put these things in place over the last couple of years.
Chris LoCurto: Amen brother. I love it. I’m so happy about that. So some folks are out there listening to this going, okay, well you, you had some push back, but I’m worried about this. Like, you know if I put this stuff in the Patrick’s doing and you know, all this stuff that Chris teaches, what if I get pushback back or, you know, what would you say to the, the leaders that are worried about pushback or, or how to make it successful?
Patrick D : One of the things I would focus on is your going to get some pushback. There’s absolutely no way around. Um, but I think a lot of us, and this is kind of touching on some next level life stuff too, you know, I think we, we have this anticipated response that there’s going to be pushback. There may be, but then some of the people that you don’t get put on there like that I thought were going to do is to push back. We’re, oh, this is a better way to do it. This is great. You know, I wish we had this ready before. I think as long as it’s explained well and you’re very reasonable about implementation as far as what you’re, they put in like there was no way every single thing is taught into place on day one. It’s slow in deciding what is reasonable to get in place, but also realize that any pushback that you get, if it’s explained and led, well you are the leader.
Patrick D : You are supposed to cast vision. You are supposed to, you know, lead the team in the direction of excellence that you’re supposed to be going. As long as you’re focused on that and you’re clear on that and everything you’re doing is moving toward that, any pushback that you get is, is gonna be minimal. And then when you do get push back, that’s like really like brick wall and movable object type of pushback, then then you have to make a decision as to whether or not that person really is going to be part of this vision and this better way of doing things that makes everyone’s lives both in and out of the company that this company touches better.
Chris LoCurto: Yeah, we’ve had a lot of leaders that have come through that can’t stand conflict. You don’t, you don’t love conflict. We’ve had some high s high c folks, if you’ve not done your disc profile, do it. Get it done that have come through and as we’ve cast a vision for them to go back and put things in place, that was a big fear is the, well, I already know some people that are going to push back hard. And the one thing that I’ve always shared with them is, is this goes into your vision casting. Hey, we’re moving in this direction. So either you’re on board with us or you’re not. If you’re not, we’re gonna love you and we will help you to find another place. At, this just isn’t your thing, but we’re going this direction. So I expect it. And the amazing thing is like you shared, there will sometimes be, you know, one or two people that are just like, I don’t want to, I like to take an advantage of the system before I liked the, you know, being able to lay blame on somebody else and not take responsibility and they opt out.
Chris LoCurto: And you know, like you said, you never want to see people go, there’s never a time, it feels good to lose a team member. But there are many times when it feels really good to not have to go solve those fires, you know, or have to push this person again on the same things. So I think that’s super powerful. So do me a favor, describe to me in three words, your leadership five years ago. Describe to me in three words your leadership today.
Patrick D : In five years ago, I would say reactive, very much reactive, firefighting, reactive and firefighting, those kind of same, I’ll just say cluttered, not just physically cluttered, just, you know, mentally cluttered I think is where it was just because we really didn’t have a defined communication structure and a defined mission and vision. Now it’s clear, it’s organized, it is purposeful. That’s a big one. Purposeful. Um, you know, and my role is, is changed a little bit. Actually. It changed a good bit to where I’m, you know, only fighting fires, only solving these problems. And now it’s, now I get to do building up other leaders and our company is blessed with fantastic leadership across our stores, really fantastic. But, you know, getting to teach this, not just to get things off my plate, not just to just be delegating things, but to have this kind of be part of the DNA within our culture, even in the, all the locations that we have is what it is now. Um, so I would say clear, focused, uh, and definitely purposeful.
Chris LoCurto: I love it. So from all the stuff that you’ve learned in the last few years, what is one piece of advice you want to leave with our listeners who are leaders?
Patrick D : There is a lot more carry over from your personal life and your root system into leadership than you think. Chris, I’ve been following you for a long time and I was kind of in denial that there was any, I just want to learn the business stuff. Let me, let me learn the business stuff. Just tell me what to do with this problem. Tell me what to do with these people and didn’t take long in me being a part of the program. Then I was like, I really have to figure out why I do that thing right there. Why do I do this? Why do I avoid this? I’ve got to figure that out and so be open minded in your learning that different things that have affected you throughout your life. You refer to it as the root system. That’s the best way I know to put it. All of those things affects your leadership. Everything that you’ve been through, both as a, as someone in and work and in your personal life affects your leadership and you’ve got to be ready to embrace it and learn about it and get perspective if you really want to continue to grow.
Chris LoCurto: We just did the next level leadership live event at the beginning of the month. And this one was one that we tied in next level life information, root system stuff into the leadership stuff. And whenever we do that specific event, which we do, I think about every three years or so, it’s always amazing to me to watch people, you know, I’ll come off the stage and I’m never going to be, unless God changes something up, I’m never gonna be the “rah-rah” guy. I’m never gonna be the guy who you come to because my events are so motivating and you’re, on a high for a couple of weeks and then you’re back to normal. I’m always going to be the guy who helps you to get deep change and all that kind of fun stuff. Uh, so getting off the stage and coming by and talking with folks and they’re just like, man, this is just really hitting me in a painful place.
Chris LoCurto: You know? Or in a, hey, this is really exciting me because of I can go do these things. I think that’s, I’ll never get used to that. You know, I know it because I’m teaching it. This is what you need. But it is so great to be able to step off the stage and always just see people shaking their heads. It’s Charlotte Miller. If you’re listening, Charlotte, shout out to you just walking by…and I’m like, well how are you doing? She just shaking her head and she’s like, man, I’ve needed this for a long time. And just powerful stuff. So if you could go back in time to a young Patrick and it could be on anything, what would you tell him?
Patrick D : Lead, don’t manage. We, you know, cast vision. The folks that you’re leading will follow you with that vision. If it’s, if they’re going to be part of it, they’re going to follow it. And as a young Patrick, as a young manager, I managed processes, I managed to this thing here, let’s get the product to the patient. There’s a better way to do this. And um, I wish I had started this early on in my, even before I was president of the company, you know, just in, just in leading that team. If I could just do that earlier, if I could just, and understand the different aspects of my personality that affect it and do all of those things. I wish I would have started that at 25 instead of, you know, 35.
Chris LoCurto: Yeah, no doubt. Well, brother, thank you so much for sharing all this information. I really appreciate it.
Patrick D : My pleasure sir.
Chris LoCurto: And I cannot wait to hear how the cruise goes. Uh, I got a chance to meet that pack of yours. What was that? About eight, nine months ago? So I’m excited for you so I thought I was done with questioning you, but I have one more. How long ago? How long has it been since you’ve been able to do a family vacation like this and not take, you know, not take a smart phone and not have to worry about stuff?
Patrick D : 2008 that was my honeymoon and I was just, because we didn’t have a smartphone then.
Chris LoCurto: …and it would not have been a smart thing to take that on your honeymoon.
Patrick D : You are absolutely right.
Chris LoCurto: Well good. It is definitely due. Thanks again, Patrick. I really, really appreciate it.
Patrick D : Sure thing. Thanks for having me.
Chris LoCurto: Well folks, if you want to join businesses and leaders like Patrick and learn how to grow your leadership and business to develop yourself as a leader, you can check out ChrisLoCurto.com/Mastermind and get started on this path to changing your leadership and not just your leadership, but my gosh, your stress, being able to go on a family vacation and not stress. That’s why we do what we do. That’s why we teach what we teach. All right folks, we’ll hopefully this was helpful to you. Thank you for joining me today. I hope it serves you well. I encourage you to subscribe, rate, review, and share the podcast to help more people join our community. As always, take this information, change your leadership, change your business, change your life, and join us on the next episode.