330 | How To Lead An Uncoachable Team Member

How To Lead An Uncoachable Team Member

One of the most frustrating leadership situations…is trying to lead an uncoachable team member.

We’re giving you a 5-step framework to lead team members to clarity and ownership. AND we’re role-playing the conversation so you can hear how to lead it in real time.

Learn the 5 steps to lead an uncoachable team member today:

Resources:

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Resources:

How To Get More Out Of Your Team

Understanding Root System

The Worst Kind Of Leadership

Chris LoCurto:                     The most frustrating situation as a leader and how to solve it. More on that coming up next.

Chris LoCurto:                     Welcome to the Chris LoCurto show where we discuss leadership and life and discover that business is what you do, not who you are.

Chris LoCurto:                     Welcome to the show. Folks. Today we are talking about the most frustrating leadership situation. Is it revenue? No, it’s not revenue. Is it client struggles? Nope. Not Client struggles. What is it, Heather Ann…what is it?

Heather M:                            It’s uncoachable team members Chris.

Chris LoCurto:                     Hey, it is uncoachable team members. That’s the most frustrating thing as a leader. And welcome to the show. Somebody who is very coachable. I’ve been coaching you for 10 years, so you’re very coachable, a lot of the same stuff, but you know…

Heather M:                            I’m slow to catch on, but at least I’m coachable.

Chris LoCurto:                     You’re consistent. It’s a start. It’s a start.

Heather M:                            So we’re talking today about uncoachable team members and how do we solve that and why do they do it? And when so many, so many reasons why. There’s a lot of stuff that leaders get frustrated with when it comes to a team member and not being able to coach them on something.

Chris LoCurto:                     So today, Heather is going to be picking my brain on this, but something I want you guys to realize before we even get into this is many times we think that the person is just uncoachable. Many times that’s accurate, but many times it’s that they are self protecting themselves. You know, they don’t want to look stupid. They don’t want to sound stupid, they don’t want to be wrong. They’re struggling to be right. So things that we need to think about as we go through this process, our goal is not for you to go, Yep, I’ve got that jerk on my team or I’ve got that idiot on my team. That is not what we’re doing here. Our goal is to gain perspective to learn how we can lead people. So there are five steps that you can take to successfully lead an uncoachable team member and we’re going to have a pdf at the end for you to take away from this episode so you can see the steps and lead your leaders to the same thing.

Chris LoCurto:                     So if you are a leader and you have other leaders around you, then don’t just use this for you, share this with those leaders that you have so that you can guide people, help them to become more coachable. So again, I’m bringing on one of my leaders in our business to give a real life examples and see what this looks like. And so Heather, welcome to the show.

Heather M:                            Thank you. I’m actually really excited to chat with you about this. It has been part of my root system and I’ve had to grow in that area.

Chris LoCurto:                     The thing is, is like you just pointed out that you have been uncoachable we’ve all been uncoachable I don’t know, a single person that was just like always 100% just coachable. Yep. Okay, good. Teach me that. That never struggles with anything. So we are gonna talk about that. But before we dive in, I want to talk to you about something that will transform your leadership and life. Doesn’t matter if you’re a CEO, a stay at home parent or a business owner. All right, we are back and we are talking about uncoachable team members. So Heather is joining me here in the studio. What questions do you have on such a subject?

Heather M:                            I have a list of questions for you.

Chris LoCurto:                     I know you do. I know you do.

Heather M:                            You know what? Let’s just start at the beginning. I mentioned earlier having conversations with an uncoachable team member. What’s the first step in starting that type of conversation?

Chris LoCurto:                     you’ve seen me do this with you, you’ve seen me do this with other team members, you’ve done this with other team members. The first thing that you have to do is you have to remember, you’re always going to hear me say leader, start with you. If somebody is being uncoachable, you’ve got to ask yourself the question, what’s my part in this? You know, am I doing something wrong? Am I not sharing information? Am I not giving enough information, to set them up for success? So as I look at somebody, we, we are raised in a culture that says if you disagree with somebody, they’re wrong. You know, if you see somebody struggling with something, they’re wrong. So for me, the place that I always start is I start looking at me, is it my fault? Am I doing something wrong? Am I not giving you the right information?

Chris LoCurto:                     If, I have gone through my potential problems in the situation, my potential struggles and it’s not me. Then I have to start at that point by having an understanding for who I’m talking to. Now, one of our core values here is that everybody has a root system honor that. So, but what that means is start by recognizing that somebody is probably struggling with something that’s coming from their root system. You know, you’ve mentioned that at the top of the show. And so for me, I try as hard as I can. I have had team members just mess up and not say anything. I have had team members that have lost their mind because of screw ups. And the incredible thing is, is that if I respond to what I’m seeing, hearing, experiencing, then I’m going to become incredibly selfish. I’m going to take a look at that person and I’m going to be like, I don’t like your action.

Chris LoCurto:                     I don’t like your response. I don’t like, you know, whatever’s going on. For me, I start by saying, what could this person be experiencing? What do I think they’re experiencing? What do I think they’re going through? What do I think they’re struggling with? And then I’ll ask the question, “hey, what are you struggling with?” You know, what are you feeling right now? What are you experiencing right now? And what I find is in those moments, people want to be honest. It because I’m not attacking, I’m not setting their reality and I’m not telling them what’s wrong with them. I’m saying, Hey, what are you experiencing? And in the, I mean, you’ve experienced that. I’ve done that with you. A bajillion times. Right?

Heather M:                            Right, right.

Chris LoCurto:                     What do you, what do you think through when you’re struggling with something and that’s the direction I go?

Heather M:                            Yeah, I think it just opens the door for a completely different conversation because I’m not guarded. Because I know you’re not attacking me versus if you became defensive or if you had an attitude or if you approached it in a different light then I would struggle.

Chris LoCurto:                     Right? So for me, I want to see what you’re experiencing, what I may find out, and this has happened before I found out that somebody might be, you know, really freaking out because they feel like they’re letting me down. There’ve been times, you know, I’ve discovered somebody who’s going through a divorce and nobody knows about it. You know, maybe something really bad has happened in their life. Or maybe they’re just failing. You know, they’ve had another failure on something or they’ve had a run of failures and they feel like they are a failure, not just that they’re making mistakes. So the first thing I want to do is I want to find out where are they? Where are you, what are you experiencing? What are you feeling? The next thing I want to do is I want to help them to see, if I can get past that information.

Chris LoCurto:                     If it’s a root system issue, if it is something that is, you know, maybe they’re struggling with worth, which is usually the problem…then I’m going to actually speak some truth into that situation. I want to help them to see, hey, are you a failure? Well, I sure feel like I am. Okay, so you are failing with the situation, you know, if they really are, but does that make you a failure? No. Okay, well how do we solve stuff around here? And then usually I’ll go through the five steps of what happened. How did it happen? Why did it happen? How do we fix it? How do we make sure it never happens again? So I’ll go through those pieces. The next thing I want to do is I want to help them see their responsibility. Now this tends to be the place that 99.9% of leaders go to first.

Chris LoCurto:                     It’s your fault. You screwed this up. You did something wrong. How well does that work? I mean, if you think about it, all you’re doing is setting somebody reality,

Heather M:                            and putting them on the defense

Chris LoCurto:                     Yes, and putting them on the defense because it’s on top of the thing that they’re experiencing, right? Which may be hurt, pain, whatever. So for me, what I will do is, is after I’ve gone through that route, I will go to the, hey, let’s take a look at what happened, what did happen, and help them to see if it’s their fault. If it’s their responsibility, then I help them to take responsibility. But I don’t stop there, right? Instead, I helped them to take ownership of what’s going on. So what I want them to see is the difference between an owner versus like a renter mentality, right? The owner says, what else can I do? The renter says, I’m done. I’m done with this. I’m done for the day.

Heather M:                            I love that language owner versus renter. What’s another example of an owner versus renter mentality? So,

Chris LoCurto:                     Take leading somebody like a renter would be somebody who would say, you know, it’s like delegation. We talk about proper delegation around here. We talk about it all the time in killing the leadership crazy cycle that, somebody delegating most of the time, leaders, business owners, doesn’t matter who it is. Even team members when delegating a project or, or a process or something, they give something to somebody and then they go, is it done yet? Did you get that done yet? Is it worry on that thing? It’s not done yet. Oh, you’re not doing it the same way I would? So here, let me just take that back. So the renters, the kind of person who says, why aren’t you getting this done? Why isn’t this happening? Why aren’t you doing this at the same way that I would do it, why aren’t you doing it at the same pace?

Chris LoCurto:                     Why don’t you, you know, whatever. An owner looks at the situation and says, how do I set this person up for success? How do I make this person successful? So if I’m going to delegate something, if I’m going to give them a job, if I’m going to hire them for job, if I’m bringing somebody in, brand spanking new, how do I make sure that I set this person up for success? This really is something that a lot of leaders never even think about in the hiring process because what they’re doing is, well I’m hiring you for this role, you should already know it. You should already be good at this. You know, you told me in the interview process that you were the expert, right? And never think to themselves, you know, it would actually be really smart if I stopped and made sure this person is successful. That’s the owner mentality. The renters is the one that’s going to go, did you do it? The owner’s going to think, okay how do I make sure not only do you do it, but that you’re successful at doing it?

Heather M:                            So we’ve established ownership, which is great. I keep thinking of my kids as we’re talking about this because it spells right over into parents parenting. But what if they still don’t care? What if you guide them through that process and you lead the horse to water and they still aren’t believing they need to change that behavior.

Chris LoCurto:                     So, okay, now caveat, and you know this, because this is what I teach here. This is what we do. If you’ve gone through the other pieces, if you’ve made sure it’s not your fault, if you’ve made sure there’s not something they’re dealing with personally and, sometimes people will share and sometimes they just won’t, right? So you may not absolutely get to that truth there. If you’ve gone through all the other stuff, if you’ve helped them to see that it’s their responsibility, that they should take ownership and they still don’t care, are they believe that they don’t need to change behavior?

Heather M:                            Fire them [laughter]

Chris LoCurto:                     Fire them right on the spot. You’re out. Don’t let the door hit where the good Lord split you. [Laugher] See Ya. So here’s the way we would take a look at it.

Chris LoCurto:                     I’m going to help them to see the benefits of if they do change, I’m still going to take that extra approach to say, let me help you to see what winning looks like because it’s very possible they’re not seeing that. It’s very possible that they’re thinking this is a no win for me. I will help them to see what winning looks like. So, Hey, listen, if you do do this, if you do change behavior, if you do change this thing, this is what it looks like. So let’s say it’s a sales person. A lot of times salespeople who are good at sales, sometimes they don’t understand that there’s more to making them successful than just selling. So many times you can help a sales person to understand that if they do this thing, like maybe they work really well with somebody in Admin or they don’t battle with, you know, customer service, whoever it is, that the win is bigger than them just getting a commission.

Chris LoCurto:                     So a lot of times they’ll look at this and go, I’m really concerned about the sale. That’s it. I want to take care of the customer on the sales side, but then they don’t realize that they’re not setting up the administrative team with enough details, enough information to actually make the sale successful. They get a sale done and they’re like, okay guys, now go deliver the thing I just sold. But the team doesn’t get to deliver it. So instead and then they just turn on the team and go, well you guys are sucking at your job. So sometimes that’s an example of helping a team member to see, listen, go the extra mile. Don’t just do your part. We have an expectation of a result. How do we make sure we get to that result, help people out, walk this path, show, you know, get in there and help other team members to be successful on your sale. And I’m, I’m only picking out a salesperson cause that’s usually an easy one. We usually see in many businesses that struggle between sales and Admin, customer service, whatever it is or tends to be some tension there.

Heather M:                            So at this point I get that we need to get them to take ownership and get them to see the benefits of resolving the problem. But in the past I’ve experienced with a team member at a previous job, you know, they’ll get in that conversation and they’ll take responsibility and yes, oh, I understand that. But then they continue to do the same thing over and over again. So what do you do when you get in that situation, especially for High S who doesn’t like conflict or tries to avoid it? How do you get them to actually change or see the need for growth?

Chris LoCurto:                     Right. So first thing, like you just mentioned that your high s, for the, the personality styles that don’t like conflict, I can tell you it is a difficult thing because a lot of times you may not be leading the process tough enough, right? So that they understand what’s actually going on. So for example, I knew a high I leader that would have tough conversations with a team member. And by the time the team member walked out, they’re like, whew I think that went really well. And the team member walking out is going, I have no clue what that was about, right? So you have to understand that it’s not about your personality style. It’s not about you as a leader. Even though it’s conflict, it can’t be about you hating conflict. It has to be about how do I get this team member to grow?

Chris LoCurto:                     It’s about making the team member successful, right? So even if it’s difficult for you, that’s something you have to be prepared for before you ever go into this meeting. So I always tell like a high s or a high c, if you’re going into one of these tough conversations, you’ve got to get you mentally prepared, write down the things you know, the reminders that you have to think about before you go into this. So with like a situation you’re talking about at this point, they understand the results or the need to fix this thing so that they can win in this area. They just keep choosing not to. They keep choosing not to take ownership on it. This is where you start to explain their behavior. So I do not go to this very first thing because it just makes it, it makes it really difficult and it’s, it’s not necessary because give the person a chance to, to fix things.

Chris LoCurto:                     Right? So for me at this point, if I have done all this stuff that we’ve talked about before and they’re still choosing not to fix the problem or take ownership that I’m going to start talking about specifically what I’m experiencing. Hey Heather, I’m experiencing you as being uncoachable. We’ve had this discussion five times already. You’ve explained to me every single time that you understand the need, you understand the importance. You can see that this has to happen for us to win. You know, I’ll go through all of those pieces that I’ve explained to that person and yet I’m still seeing the same thing. So here’s what I want to ask you. Put yourself in my shoes. How would you deal with you if you were me? How would you deal with somebody who was choosing this? If you were the leader, what would you do with that person and the reason why I go, and again, keep in mind this is after all the other stuff, hopefully the other stuff fixes the problem.

Chris LoCurto:                     We’re getting to the point now where it’s, it’s not working, so for me, I’m going to ask them to think about what it’s like to be the leader in this role and look back at you as the person. This team member doing the same exact thing. How would you feel? What would you do about it? The great thing is many times this will solve the problem. They will actually be able to look at, you know, it’s like what we do in next level life when we’re trying to help somebody to see something about their root system or, or a surface level response that they’re doing and they’re getting it, they’re getting it, but they’re not really getting, it’s like, why aren’t you doing this? Why are you choosing to do this? And then I’ll say, okay, if your nine year old daughter did this, would you be okay with that?

Chris LoCurto:                     Oh my gosh, no. All right. Then how come it’s okay for you? Boom. I mean it is just a powerful hit. It helps them to see, shoot, I would not let my daughter treat herself that way, but I keep treating myself this way. It’s the same kind of concept. If I as a, if I as a team member, were leading me as a team member, what would I do about the situation? All of a sudden they get that different perspective. They get that leadership perspective and this can be, it can be the thing that causes them to right side. Okay, I’ve got it. I see it. I got it. I’m going to jump in. What I’ve noticed in the past is more than not, probably good 75% of the time that I’ve had to do this, maybe, maybe 80%. It’s in that area. The team member, if they’re a champion, this is the thing that causes them to right side and start rocking on. But there’s still, there’s still probably that 20% of the time that somebody is just, they still don’t get it and they struggle. So if you do that, hopefully that’s the thing that kicks that into gear.

Heather M:                            This is an area that I struggle because this is like the tough love part of the conversation. How, how do you make that come across well without demotivating the team member?

Chris LoCurto:                     Well, that’s a tough part because keep in mind, I’m saying this comes way late because you should have done all the things that should have fixed it. So if we’re at this point and they’re still not solving the problem, this is going to be a demotivating discussion. Right? But don’t go at it with an attack. Hey listen man, you’re just being stupid here. I just can’t believe you just can’t get this. And we’ve had this conversation five times right now. Keep in mind you should be doing the things to set them up for success. If they ultimately can’t get there, then we’re going to have to make a decision as a leader. Right? So for now here, at this point, we’re moving in that direction of there’s a possible writeup coming. There’s probably a writeup coming very soon. There’s probably something coming because they’ve been negative to this point.

Chris LoCurto:                     So the key though is that you’re not trying to drive demotivation. You have to understand that it can be something that will be demotivating, you know, can be something that will be demoralizing. So if you show up and be vulnerable in the moment and do it from that heart of just, hey, here’s what I’m struggling with I still need to coach you on this. I still need to mentor you on this and I’m just not getting the response and I’m struggling because what I don’t want to do is I don’t want to go into this really negative space of having to write you up or, or give you a heavy consequence, but you’re really not leaving me many options here. And so really I want you to kind of understand where I’m coming from. Now. If you can’t be genuine, then you can’t do that.

Chris LoCurto:                     If you can’t be honest, then you cannot go that route. Because what will happen is, is that you’ll just look like a jerk who doesn’t care, right? They’ll see right through that. So be honest about it. If this is where you are, hopefully this is where your heart is as well, like it should be here. So let them know that you don’t expect them to have every answer to everything that you’re asking them. But make sure that you just kinda hang out in that area and just help them to see. Do you, do you see my struggle? Do you see where I’m coming from? Do you see the thing that I still have to lead this? Right? So many times I will talk to a team member

Chris LoCurto:                     Many times what I’ll do is I’ll say, hey, do you see how this is affecting this? Do you see how this is affecting this team, the situation, this, whatever it is. Understand, I still am responsible for all of that. I’m still responsible to make that happen. Wow. Gosh. Memories are coming back from way back when, when I’ve had situations like this where I’ve actually had to help somebody to see your role is not the only important role in the whole business. Right and help them to see that I’m not choosing to be a jerk because I’m calling them out on something they’re not doing. I’m having to be responsible for a business. There are clients that expect things from me.

Chris LoCurto:                     There are other people, team members that expect things from me. So the goal is be vulnerable. Help them to see that you do care, but this is not a bad time to help them to see that you also care about the success of the business as well. So just know that it’s probably going to be demotivating at this point, but your hope is that by doing it this way, hopefully they will shift their mind and you know their mindset and go, you know what? Stop being a Dork. Do the thing you’re supposed to do that do the thing that you’re responsible for.

Heather M:                            I think that’s key. I think the vulnerability, like you said, sets this space, sets the stage for that to have conversation to happen without you being the bad person

Chris LoCurto:                     Well, and so something that I didn’t share in that is how do we normally respond? Like, so let’s take you as a high s, right? Yeah. How would you normally respond if you had to have that conversation? Yeah,

Heather M:                            I’m a horrible person. I, I’m going to lose this person’s friendship. All these bad things are going to happen.

Chris LoCurto:                     Right? And how much do you have to build yourself up to have that tough conversation? And so it’s a funny thing where people, you know, we obviously we talk in personality styles a lot here where people will look at a high s and go, man, they’ve got all high d on that. No, they didn’t. They had to work themselves up past the conflict to have the conflict, which causes them to come across as like they’re being total jerks. Right? So you’ve had moments in your past, I’m sure, where you’ve had to have a tough conversation that you weren’t mentally prepared for. And you have to, you feel like you’ve got to be the hard person, the harsh person in the processes. Is that correct?

Heather M:                            Yeah. And I think one of the things that you had taught me was if I look at it from a mindset of I’m not hurting this person, I’m trying to help them grow. It’s like parenting. You know, you have those tough love moments and you’re having that tough conversation with your child, but you know that it’s the best thing for them. Even though it hurts, even though it’s uncomfortable, they don’t see it that way. But you know, so, you know, when I’m going into the conversation now I’m getting my mind in that space of I’m not trying to hurt this person. I really want them to grow and I want to help them and this is necessary to help them grow.

Chris LoCurto:                     Right. And I do think there is a, a caveat here or something that we need to point out is if you just have somebody who is being stubborn and is not receiving responsibility, is not trying at all, is not, you know, recognizing their need for ownership, then you’ve probably by this point already moved on to write ups and moving towards firing this person. So what we’re talking about here is that person that you’re working with and they’re trying, or they’re at least they’re seeing it and this is somebody you want to keep around. If they get this man, they just become a phenomenal team member or they become an even more phenomenal team member. So, you know, like I say, if we’re talking about somebody that you’ve, you’ve told this to and they’re like, Hey, forget you dude, pay me or I’m out. It’s like, well, you’re out. Right? So we’re talking in this situation we’re really discussing somebody that we want to keep around somebody we want to have because we know that they can be phenomenal. So

Heather M:                            good stuff. So is there anything else that we can do to help them? Is there anything that you haven’t hit on or, or anything that you can think of?

Chris LoCurto:                     Yeah, I’m always going to be somebody who, if there’s an area, let’s say, so if they’re a leader, if their team member and it’s just normal business cultural stuff or stuff that I teach on all the time, then I’m going to be the one who’s coaching them and leading them. But what if it’s something that I can’t lead them on? You know, maybe the thing that I’m needing from them is something that’s beyond my expertise. So, uh, you know, again, if it’s leadership, I’m going to be teaching the leadership side. But what if it’s web development? I am the last person who’s going to teach anybody web development, right? Cause I just don’t even, I’m not there. Um, if you can’t copy and paste, then I’m, that’s, that’s the limitations of my coding abilities.

Chris LoCurto:                     So what if the area is in an area where I can get them some coaching or mentoring, I’m going to approach the person and say, Hey, listen, you know, now that we’ve gone here and you see this and you know, we’ve gotten all the way through all of these steps and they’re like, yes, I want to change. I want to change. Great. How about we get you some coaching or mentoring in this area? You know, whatever the thing is. So again, that may be you, but it may be bringing in outside help. I’m a huge advocate of coaching. Obviously, I’ll coach, right? We pay for tons of coaching in this business to make people better, stronger, you know, more excellent at what they’re doing. This would be one of those situations where it’s not just a coach to make them better at what they’re doing.

Chris LoCurto:                     It’s a coach to help them to see something that you might not be able to help them to see. So that’s definitely a possibility. Where could you get some mentoring, even if it’s just down to the, you know, maybe it’s a key leader. Maybe it’s somebody who’s been with you for 10 years. Maybe it’s somebody who was just, you know, you love them to death. They’re phenomenal. They’re just struggling with something. Maybe it’s counseling, you know, who knows. We have a ton, a ton of clients who will send their team members through next level life and when they come back they’re like, you know, and they don’t get to know anything about the next level. It’s completely confidential. But what they get back is this amazing team member. You know, this thing that they were stuck on or this thing that they were dealing with. Now they’re killing it. You know, we have so many of the clients that will send their whole leadership team through and it’s powerful how much it impacts the business. So it could be that they’re dealing with something personally that you just can’t help with, that she needed to get them to somebody professionally. So the last thing I would do is if we’re still working on this and we’re still not 100% there, is it possible for us to get some help, some outside help on this?

Heather M:                            Okay. So here’s what I want to do. Are you ready? I want to get a little bit vulnerable. Okay.

Heather M:                            Okay. Let’s do a little roleplaying. So let’s help our listeners really get this concept. So let’s role play a conversation. Okay. I’ll go back to the five year ago leader who was very defensive. Um, you be, you.

Chris LoCurto:                     Okay, I’ll try.

Heather M:                            Let’s get a little real and raw on the show.

Chris LoCurto:                     Okay. I cannot wait to see you’re going with this.

Heather M:                            Okay. So here’s the scenario. You’re ready? Okay. So I’ll be the leader. So one of my team members is going against our culture. Okay. And I’m feeling defensive for them and I’m not seeing the problem. Ready?

Chris LoCurto:                     No, wait, who? So you’re fired. So who am I?

Heather M:                            You’re you. Okay. I’m being the defensive leader.

Chris LoCurto:                     so I’m coming to you saying, hey, you got a team member who’s screwed up.

Heather M:                            Yes.

Chris LoCurto:                     Okay. Do I know what they’re screwing up with?

Heather M:                            Well, they’re going against our culture.

Chris LoCurto:                     Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, how about, uh, not putting clients first?

Heather M:                            Okay. Yeah.

Chris LoCurto:                     So, Hey, I need to talk to you about, um, so-and-so, um, frank on your team. Um, we’re having some issues. You know how we are. Our culture is that we provide dishes, glasses, a whole kitchen for people to eat. We provide all the meals, all that kind of fun stuff, you know, when we do. Uh, but what we’re struggling with is, is frank seems to be using a whole bunch of stuff and then just leaving it behind for somebody else to clean up. So what I need you to do is I need you to sit down with him and help him to see that’s no bueno you know, that, you know, we don’t do that in this culture. Can you do that for me?

Heather M:                            Wow. Don’t you think that everybody else is doing the same thing too? I mean, frank is not the only one.

Chris LoCurto:                     Okay. Valid. That’s very possible. But we’re specifically talking about things that we’ve seen frank do. So if other people are doing this too, than I am more than happy to actually have a staff meeting discussion, which I will, I’m going to do that anyways. But specifically we’re seeing frank do this all lot. And so we really need him to understand how important this is and that, you know, this is our culture. You, you pick up after yourself,

Heather M:                            I don’t even know where to go. [laughter]

Chris LoCurto:                     See, this is the funny part about that, right? Is that when you do this, when you do it this way and you’re not attacking, you’re not being a jerk…

Heather M:                            Here’s the thing. I have nowhere else to go but go. You know what? You’re right. I need to have that conversation with him.

Chris LoCurto:                     So let’s try it. Let’s see if we could do this from a different angle. I won’t be me. I’ll just be a leader who doesn’t do the things that we teach. How about we try that? Okay. This is going to be tough. All right.

Chris LoCurto:                     Hey, Heather. Frank keeps leaving his dishes and he’s expecting other people to take care of those. Would you fix this please?

Heather M:                            I’m sorry. How do you even know it’s him? How do you even know that they’re Franks dishes?

Chris LoCurto:                     Because people have seen frank leaving the dishes behind and they’ve reported that to me.

Heather M:                            Other people have left their dishes behind too.

Chris LoCurto:                     I’m not talking about other people. I’m talking about frank.

Heather M:                            I mean honestly is in his KRA?

Chris LoCurto:                     It is our culture. Heather, how about you make sure your team is doing the thing.

Chris LoCurto:                     This is so probably like there’s a lot of leaders going, What’s wrong with what he’s doing right now? Uh, as you can see, we’re not really getting anywhere. It’s not very effective in the process.

Heather M:                            This is like the banter back and forth or the arguments back and forth between, between kids, right? It’s like I’ll yell louder than you.

Chris LoCurto:                     Right? So as you could see, it’s not very effective. Where the other way. And within a couple of responses you’re like, well, I have no choice. I have to take responsibility. So that’s pretty much how I will do that.

Chris LoCurto:                     So folks, to remember the five steps to walk through when you’re dealing with an uncoachable leader or team member, we have a download for you now. I’m going to tell you how to get that right after my leadership coach, Joel Fortner tells you how to start getting better results in your leadership and business and how to cut the leadership noise and do what works.

Chris LoCurto:                     Okay? So if you or one of your leaders are dealing with an uncoachable team member, go to chrislocurto.com/332 And get the step by step download for how to have this conversation. Now, it will help you and if you’re needing to teach this framework to someone else, it’s a great resource. Well, folks, hopefully this has helped you today. Thank you, Heather, for coming on here and being uncoachable and bantering with me. It was fun having you on. Well, folks again, thank you for joining me today. I hope it has served you well. I encourage you to subscribe, rate, review, and share the podcast to help more people join our community. And as always, take this information, change your leadership, change your business, change your life, and join us on the next episode.

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