476 | Three Rules For Really Forgiving Others (And Yourself)

Chris LoCurto 0:00
What does forgiveness mean? And not mean? And how to forgive yourself right after this?

Welcome to the Chris LoCurto show where we discussed leadership and life and discover that business is what you do, not who you are. Welcome to the show, folks. I hope you're having a fabulous day wherever you are. Today on the show. I've got the amazing what happened I said about you guys that I can throw in right now. I need something fun and fabulous. The

Joel Fortner 0:43
oh so many things. Oh, so

Chris LoCurto 0:46
the exuberant, the tenacious, I don't know I got nothing. Joining me again on the show is Joe foreigner and Brian. Alex. Welcome, guys. Good to have you back

Joel Fortner 0:57
on. Good to be here. Thank

Chris LoCurto 0:59
you. And we are hitting a another three rules today. Today we are going to be talking about the three rules of forgiveness of really forgiving others and yourself as well. And so we just see that, you know, this has been a a fabulous series of being able to run through as Brian is continually trying to get us to disagree. There's got to be you're gonna hit some topic at some point is that

Brian A 1:28
what this is about to you

Chris LoCurto 1:32
give each other I just want to find you guys to be you know, No, but seriously the the great episodes I feel like and everybody has responded to that putting these series together and just diving in and saying you know, what, are these these rules do these applying? Do they go? Well? And if not, why not? And if so, what works about them? So Brian, take it away from there.

Brian A 1:59
So I feel like we're in the you know, not high school. This is more junior high. Playground, elementary playground Fight Fight Fight was trying to set you guys up to to disagree on something. Because it's entertaining. This is for entertainment value only. No. Okay. So today yeah, we're doing another three rules. But it is it has been it has been fun. It is fun. I love the interaction that we've got here. And so today, talking about forgiving others, you know, maybe it really doesn't register in people's minds sometimes. But unforgiveness. And the toxic residue of bitterness can be something like a cancer of the soul that eats away at someone's heart and mind. Sometimes we're not even aware of it. But whether it's that little grudge against the coffee barista who didn't say hello with a perky smile last time, or somebody who has, you know, verbally or even worse physically assaulted you. We tend to keep these little records of wrongs in our hearts and minds. And usually they have no expiration date. They are permanent records. And so yeah, question for you guys. Before we get into the rules is just how often do we see this crop up in in root systems that are just plagued with the weed of unforgiveness?

Joel Fortner 3:22
Oh, gosh, there's a ton all I mean, and what can we Gosh, Chris, almost probably nearly every next level life event, every one we coach and counsel to any level of depth when we start especially getting into relationships, bringing how a friend wrong them things that people just aren't past for various reasons comes up all the time.

Chris LoCurto 3:44
Yeah, it's interesting. It's actually sad, incredibly sad, but I feel like we're seeing a heck of a lot more of this. I literally, I never listened to the radio. I mean, it's just a very rare occurrence. But the other day, I jumped in my truck and I didn't have normally I'll plug in my phone, listen to podcasts, listen to a book, something like that. Or just jam to some great 70s music. And I hit the radio, and it went to the DJ. I don't know if you still call them DJs or I don't know. And he was talking about he goes an amazing, amazingly wrong response happened in Florida today. A man who was golfing another man was walking his dog on the golf course. And the man who was golfing pulled out his gun because you should have a gun on the golf cart shot out, shot him and then proceeded to beat him up. And I'm telling you, it is there are so many things that we are seeing nowadays that that response. I mean, I would love to say that that absolutely shocked the daylights out of me. But unfortunately it didn't. All right, we are seeing a lot of responses nowadays where I've had multiple people that I'm talking to. And then one instance that showed up online of like parents beating each other up at Children's baseball game or football game or something like that. I think there is this level of tension that is building. And people that is just going ballistic, throw into that past hurts. past wounds, whether or not it's an actual wound, or you have victim mentality, it really actually doesn't matter, right? The result is the same. If you're holding on to it, let's say somebody did actually hurt you. And you're holding on to it. Well, there's an old saying, it's bitterness is like taking a cyanide pill and hoping the other person dies. Holding on to that bitterness is actually just poisoning you. Right. And I think now what we're seeing is, you know, a lot of people responding with that bitterness that they've been stockpiling inside. So yeah, we see it a lot. We see, you know, the greatest, nicest sweetest people can have struggle in letting go of some things that have happened to them. You know, so yeah, that's a long answer to that. But yes, we do. See, we do see a lot.

Brian A 6:21
Yeah, the Swedish people have always had a problem. Forgiving.

Chris LoCurto 6:27
You said this really should never really. That's a great well, Swedish

Brian A 6:33
people. Okay. Anyway, if you have to explain it. Yeah, jokes. Alright. Moving right along. So yeah, if you're Swedish, please don't write us hate mail, or Yeah, send it to Chris. That's good, okay to do. Moving along. But, you know, trying to kind of get under the surface here before we come around to the three rules, which are super practical. But you know, I just want to make a couple of comments about the human condition, because it we cry out for fairness, for justice, for good are in my our minds, right, to prevail, at least as far as when we perceive ourselves to be the victim and not the perpetrator. So as soon as something unsavory happens to us, we think in terms of revenge, retaliation, reciprocity, but it's, it's not always possible, you know, sad to say that much to our chagrin, to return that to hurt others, how we perceive that they've harmed us. And so what do we do we harbor that unforgiveness? And and so there's this, you know, there's this idea that we want things to be fair and right and ordered, except when it's our turn, except when we're the victim. And and this, you know, I'm sure this is going to come out in some of these rules, the whole victim mentality, thing here, but the resulting effect is, you know, it can it can have really serious damage to us physically, mentally, emotionally, depression, you know, PTSD, other health conditions. And you know, and this can be compounded even more when the person that you're having trouble forgiving, is yourself. And so let me just pause there for a second. How much does that come up?

Chris LoCurto 8:28
What 100% I don't think there's ever a time that you find somebody who has completely forgiven themselves for every bad situation, Bad mistake, bad decision that they've made, I think, you know, that we are, we are just so used to beating ourselves up. Now. It's not to say that some aren't in denial, but it still doesn't, you know, that's still not saying that they don't beat themselves up for something, you know, there's some level of negative self talk. I mean, imagine the mind that completely forgave themselves for every single thing. I mean, it would just be phenomenal. How good would they be at forgiving others? You know, who sinned against them?

Brian A 9:14
Yes, the mimes trying to forgive each other. Sorry, there's a delay over here. I'm in I'm on the other side of the planet, and there's a bit of delay. And so I'm hearing things that maybe you're not saying I don't know. Anyway, forgive me.

Chris LoCurto 9:29
How do you mind forgive? I mean, it's all

Brian A 9:37
Alright, well, if only everybody can see Joe right now. That's fantastic. Coming up next, the rules that you need to follow in order to truly forgive others and yourself.

Speaker 2 9:54
Freedom it's so powerful.

Unknown Speaker 9:56
I felt rejuvenated, almost renewed.

Speaker 2 9:58
I just felt so locked up. I am loved and accepted for who I am and not an ounce of judgment. So I was very comfortable there that had a really big impact on me, that's going to be worth it. It's going to be hard. But it's going to be even better. On the other side.

Unknown Speaker 10:15
For me, it was just, it was just very refreshing. And I want to say lifegiving. For me, it really was,

Speaker 2 10:21
you know, I would go to next level life again, and probably again, and probably again, because it's so powerful.

Chris LoCurto 10:29
If you want to experience the same kind of life transformation, the same kind of self awareness and freedom that they have. Or maybe you're just curious what the process would look like for you, then head on over to Chris locurto.com/next level life.

Brian A 10:49
All right, well, welcome back, everybody. And here we go. You know how we play the game, I'm going to read a rule, and its associated rationale, and then one of you lucky gentleman will get to kick it off with an immediate reaction. Maybe you hate the rule, love it, whatever doesn't matter. Just modify it fit your own perspective and experience. The other person gets to weigh in either agreeing or disagreeing. The more disagreement Of course, the more entertaining and hopefully informative, that's the point. The point is that the listener takes away from all of this ideation and deliberation, a greater perspective. So everybody ready?

Joel Fortner 11:30
Ready to have a lot

Brian A 11:31
of forgiveness?

Chris LoCurto 11:32
Whose Line Is that? Anyways? The more you disagree, the more points you get, the points don't matter.

Brian A 11:39
But the points don't matter. Exactly. All right, here we go. Let's kick it off rule number one. And, and I'm gonna, you know, I, I have my rare moments where I try, I try to try to be a little bit vulnerable, I'm going to try to be vulnerable, as as a way of digging a little bit underneath the surface a little more today, and hopefully get Chris loves it when Brian's vulnerable. I must break you. Alright, here we go. So rule number one, I put it like this objectively assess the infraction for what it actually is. And here's my, here's my, my vulnerability moment. I, I'm guilty, I am guilty of imagining a lot of what actually plagues me mentally. These are I have a lot of imagined interactions, or you know what I imagined the intentions of somebody else's. I mean, Joel, can start one of our meetings with a particular just completely innocuous comment, how was your day, how was your weekend, and I just take it in all kinds of different directions, you know, and it's all about what is happening in my brain and really, objectively has nothing to do with the situation that we're in. It makes me remember this quote that we've said before we suffer more in imagination than in reality. And so I want to start with the rule about assessing where you actually harmed and to what extent I mean, there's, there's this kind of objectivity that has to happen. Right, question, Mark. So that's the first rule. What do we think?

Chris LoCurto 13:28
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It's one of those. It's, it's one of those things where it is so difficult to get people. And it's just seems like it's getting tougher, sometimes. It's so difficult for to get people to ask that very question. Were you hurt? Did you know? By Joel asking, How is your day? Did he hurt you? You know, it's funny by that. Right? Exactly. It is funny how people will now go, Well, I know he meant something or he was being passive aggressive, or and then again, the victim mentality will now put a spin on? Well, I don't I can't tell you exactly what it is. But I'm going to tell you it was something instead of So think about this. Let's just say that he did mean something, right. He did mean something negative, right. I knew if

he did. If, if you go down the path of assuming the best, which we don't do anymore. I mean, it's like it's crazy. You know, I was 13. Yeah, just assume the best because what if you're wrong, right? But instead now what we have a tendency to do is is just assume the worst. And if I'm wrong, then oh, well, no big deal. Sorry about that. You know, my bad and it's not a there's no responsibility of just Not only do you see how you approach that person, like, let's say you attacked that person for saying good morning, but then you also miss out on how damaging it is to you. So let's just forget the fact that you may be damaging your relationship with somebody else by attacking them because you think that maybe there's a possibility that they may be meant something. If you approach it in the, let me just assume everything is okay. So let's just say he says, Good morning, and first thing that happens is you go, what did he mean by that? And then you very quickly tackle that. And of course, we would say, you know, tackling that the negative self talk for us tackling the lies the truths Whoa, what am I saying there? Why am I assuming that there's something wrong here? Oh, okay. I'm assuming that he meant something by it, because I'm struggling or I'm losing worth or I'm, you know, whatever the thing is, okay, well, what's the truth? The truth is, I have no clue if he meant anything other than Good morning. So let me just assume all he meant was, good morning, here's the great thing. If you're wrong, and he did mean something by it, here's what I can promise you, he's coming back for another pass, there's going to be another opportunity, if somebody is throwing out a BB, or if somebody is being passive aggressive, and you don't receive it, there's a high probability, they're coming back with another pass. So many times what I'll do especially in like something like next level life, I'll just go with it, you know, just assume that they didn't mean anything. And then I'll just, I'll wait and watch. So especially like somebody, if somebody has like a high regulatory in their values in their in their motivators, if you don't know values, you know, that's one of the things we teach along with DISC personality profiles. It's the things that motivate you the things that you value. And one of those is high regulatory, somebody who loves systems, processes, all that kind of stuff. That can be the person that holds on to an offense for years. I mean, years and throw Barb's later on only to find out later. Oh, that's not what that meant, oh, it's not, and then immediately just drop it. Now they no longer care about it, but they could have held on to it for five years, right. So if you're wrong, and you approach it as though everything is copacetic, I mean, he didn't do anything. Ridiculous. He's just saying good morning. And you don't give that person if that person is being passive aggressive, if they're trying to get a message across and you do not receive their message, I will lay down money, they're coming back with another pass, they're gonna come back and say something else. If they do, this gives you a great opportunity to then gain perspective. I don't think you need to gain perspective on the first time, just assume that they didn't mean anything by it, just rock on have a great day. But let's say they come back for another pass, then that gives you the opportunity to go, hey, help me understand that. It appears as though you're throwing a BB my direction, I'm experiencing that comment, as as a BB is there, is there something in there, and then you get to open up that discussion and see what's going on behind it. But when you automatically receive everything, or almost everything, or even a lot of things, as there being something behind it, you have to start asking a very important question. Why? Why do I see it that way? Why am I receiving it that way? And here's one of the things. And Joel, you and I don't I don't know if we've ever actually talked about this. But one of the things I see a lot is many times people are projecting onto somebody else, something that they might do. So if it's, if I'm the person who's going to step in, and I would say to you good morning, and I mean something behind it. Then when you say good morning, I'm going to assume there's something behind it. We see this all the time. I see this all the time. I'm sure Joel does too. Where the it's always dependent upon the person, right? If somebody wants to hurt somebody with

oh, I don't know, making a joke about their birthday. And then somebody says something about their birthday. Well, it because it's the way that they would do it. They meant something by it. You know, whatever that thing is, however, they would do something, they see it coming and it's like, well, I would do that. So you must be doing that. I can't tell you how many times in my life, it is innumerable that somebody has accused me of something. Again, this is what I do for a living. So it's not that uncommon, but I'm talking about in just in life in general with people I love and know. Somebody will say something, accuse me of something and I'm like, well What in the world? Are you talking about? Only to find out. And as I'll lead them through the process, what we'll find out is it's usually something that they would do themselves.

Brian A 20:10
Joel, it's your opportunity to disagree with everything that Chris just said.

Joel Fortner 20:16
So yeah, we're not to the entertainment value. Yeah. Then for everyone. No, I would agree. I agree with the rule. And I agree with that as well. I mean, it's it's amazing how powerful fear and assumptions are in the situations. Because the rule what I how I'm receiving the rule, Brian is this is just normal kind of relational. This isn't an obvious someone walked up and punched you in the nose. And it's like, Yes, I know, that actually hurt me. This is more day to day communication related stuff between people. But it's amazing, I think, to the extent that we're more fearful. And to the extent we make a lot of assumptions, we put ourselves in this situation of being hurt. When there was no intent, perhaps behind something no one, no one meant to hurt you. But if you're I mean, I think I mean, of course, worth plays in immensely here too. Because if the situations where, you know, you're finding a tremendous amount of worth in your spouse's opinion, your leaders opinion, your team members opinion, your parents opinion, that you can receive information and because of there's a fear of being rejected, there's a fear of judgment, you've got a lot of history with someone. So you think you know, their patterns. And you know, oh, I know what that meant. That kind of stuff. And you set your own reality, based on assumptions, or lie driven fear. And that, that you immediately box yourself in, and you box yourself in, you set your own reality, which is the opposite of gaining perspective. In you're so focused on self in those moments of, well, what this happened to me, rather than watching the other person and stopping and thinking, I wonder what that was, I wonder what they meant by that, I wonder what that tone means. I wonder what those words mean, that actually triggered me, I immediately felt an emotion. And we can take that. So personally, when all this work stuff, fear stuff, assumption stuff is going on in our brains. And these all these force of habit responses we can have, that immediately causes us to focus all on self, rather than gaining perspective, and really being able to practice this things that Chris was just saying, and then being like, Okay, what's that real? Am I really hurt? Going back to the rule? Was I really hurt? Or was that knee? I'll tell you most of the time. It's me. It's not the other person. It's me. It's stuff that I struggle with, that I'm triggered in the moment. And the thing to practice as as a takeaway from all this information is to ask yourself this very question is, was that them? Or was that me? And the Why do I feel this way? Right now? The information just came in talking with my spouse, you know, make up an example, I don't know, talking to somebody today. And I felt the physical response, the emotional response. The key is a key is to turn in and ask why am I struggling right now in this conversation? Why am I feeling this way? Why is that stress response that out of control response that I feel hurt response? Start with you? Why are you feeling that way? And what is it that came through your brain so quickly? Like what did you tell yourself? And what assumptions Did you did you make? And that'll start moving you down a much better path.

Brian A 23:43
Yep, yeah. I love that. I love that, you know, part of what we do, part of what you guys

Chris LoCurto 23:51
love Joel's answer, and you didn't love mine. Are you exactly

Brian A 23:56
you took you received that the see what this is all about? But we what you guys do and what we do as a team on a, you know, at large, let's say is, is we elevate someone's self perception, so that they can accurately assess and see themselves and, and there's something you know, so empowering about that. I'll say, conversely, we are powerless, really, to change until we see ourselves as we as we really are. And just that self inventory, that self awareness, that perception, getting bigger is is gaining strength and the ability to then do something about it, but we can't if we don't see that first.

Chris LoCurto 24:46
Yeah, let me let me let me agree and push back. It's not really pushing back on what you're saying. It's Oh, what

Joel Fortner 24:55
you're disagreeing with Brian. Yes, this is even better. Dell has

Brian A 25:00
the entertainment value. This is all for Joel sake now.

Chris LoCurto 25:05
It's so I need to rephrase because it's not really a disagreement it's an addition to. And that is everything you said is correct. If if if here's, here's the big key, if you want help, there are so many people who do not want help, that they'd like staying where they are they like, you know, the old phrase misery loves company is so very true that they don't want to actually change. So what you're saying is absolutely correct in the context of somebody who wants growth, who wants help? Who wants adjusting? We have a smaller most of our people do. But we have a small portion of people that are just like, No, you can't help me. No, you don't understand? No, I mean, it's just a whole litany of excuses. Even when you show them the great perspective. You just don't get it, you just don't understand. It's just everything not to change. And so that's the one that's the one addition I would put in there is that and hopefully if somebody out there is listening to this and going, oh my gosh, that's me, I really don't want to change, then hopefully they can go what do I do about that, if that makes sense?

Brian A 26:22
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and just to underline again, I mean, we're talking about somebody who's that that self perception that sees it for themselves, you know, there's that final dawning revelation realization of their true state. And so, all right, I think we're ready to move on to rule number two. All right, here we go. Everybody ready, ready to pounce ready to disagree? Here we go. Determine whether it can be changed, righted or fixed. All right, here's, here's why. This is some of the rationale behind I'm guilty of thinking, Well, I don't care if you know, to someone who rocked Joel told me good morning, and asked me how my weekend was, so I don't care, I love to throw Joel under the bus. I don't know why he's just such a nice guy. It's just I don't know, anyway, I don't care if you're sorry, or not, I just don't want you to do it. Again. This is where this defense mechanism will, will come in self protection. Fear, as Joe mentioned a moment ago, all of that just goes right into play. You know, if somebody sorry or not, it doesn't, doesn't really change my perspective of the switch, I just don't want it to happen again. And there's that you know, victim and defense that comes in. And you know, what I what I love again, about what we do here, we kind of, we tease and we we kind of talk about in different contexts from different angles. This, you know, lines from the Serenity Prayer or 12 step or Viktor Frankl or stoic philosophy or biblical theology, all of that kind of comes to bear about determining what you can change and what you can't about your situation and being very clear about where we have control over a situation or ourselves our response, for example, and you know, maybe you can't change the fact that something happened, you can't control or make, right, necessarily a past infraction, but you can play some healthy boundaries. And so, you know, after that first one, objectively assessing what actually happened, then going on to step two, determine whether it can be changed or righted or what you need to do. What is the response? Now, that's kind of where my mind goes, how would you guys reframe that or disagree with that?

Joel Fortner 29:03
It sounds like a good step to me. You know, Brian did take that step. I mean, there may be situations where maybe not that, it when it comes to when it comes to relationship, especially if it's a close relationship. We're really after unity. I mean, think about a marriage or think about a close sibling or think about someone close to you. It's, it's if we need to do that to repair a fissure. If we need to do that to create unity or some type of wholeness in the relationship, then it's a great thing to do. If everyone is willing to do that. Both people have to be willing to do that, that I tend to think about these situations, to that kind of look at what's my bigger goal of a relationship is trying to maintain trust and trying to build unity and trying to take those measures to do Yeah, but that's me. I want to be that way I like to operate that way. I don't like there being like that distance or that, like, if we need to talk through these things, then let's talk through them.

Chris LoCurto 30:12
Yeah, I mean, it's, what more is there to say, if you don't focus on fixing the problem, then what is that pointing out, that's just revealing that you actually like staying in the problem. You know, even if you don't have the right tool, to fix the problem, getting outside of yourself and seeking somebody, something that can help you to solve it is actually not that terribly difficult, even if it's just going and finding somebody who is healthy, to present the situation to and discuss through, but not to do anything about it, not to fix not to change not to make any adjustments is just saying, I actually don't want to change, I'm aware of it. But I don't want to change.

Brian A 31:01
Alright, well, guys, coming up next, the third rule you need to follow in order to finally forgive and move forward. That's after this.

Chris LoCurto 31:14
Folks, if you've been listening to me for any length of time, then you know the number one issue when it comes to business, when it comes to family, when it comes to friendships, is having a lack of high quality communication, to make sure that you are absolutely winning in every aspect of your life. It all starts with having great communication, the best way to get that communication is to understand your personality style, and to understand the personality style of the folks that you're spending the most time with, whether it be at work, whether it be at home, the best way to do that is to go to Chris locurto.com/store. And get your personality profile and personality profiles for your team to day. Get it for your family members. Today. As you go through that profile, you will begin to see the greatest ways to communicate, go to Chris ducker.com/store today.

Brian A 32:12
And welcome back. Here we are. And we've gone through two roles we have. Joel is always vying for unity. And while I appreciate that, I was hoping for more entertainment today, here we are in the third rule, we have no disagreements so far, a little bit of pushback from Chris always directed towards me, I'm not going to take that the wrong way I choose to forgive and move on. I'm going to apply these rules. Rule number three, you are more aggressive than passive but okay.

All right. Rule number three is release the other person for your own health. Release. You're the other person for your own health. Here. Here's here's the rationale. We tend to keep the other person prisoner. It's like we're holding them. And I'm this is another Brian vulnerability moment where it's like we're holding them hostage until they pay what we think they owe us for the infraction, whatever perceived or imagined, or real infraction that there was, but real life doesn't work like that, you know, and it doesn't in the sense of we are the ones being held hostage, not them. And that's you know, it's like Chris, you mentioned a moment ago about, you know, unforgiveness is you drinking poison and waiting for that other person to die. Well, you know, and just to press because we want to get in this third rule here, we want to get a little bit more personal. What if you're the one What if you are the one that you can't forgive? You're holding yourself hostage, you're taking poison, and you're dying? And you know, it's easy to see how unhealthy that is. But, you know, are there situations where we can't or we don't release the other person? So let's kick that off. Here's the rule. Release the other person for your own health. But is that always possible?

Chris LoCurto 34:19
Yeah, so I'm gonna go all kind of God on you here. Because I don't know where

we're going, we just go on Oh, God right here. So it is as a person who has done that. Somewhere around 4 billion times maybe maybe it's more like 5 billion. It is foolishness. To not let go of, you know, to release the other person in the situation. Now, as I say that, there are tons of people listening to this that are going whoa, hold on. Second, what are you talking about? And here's the reason why I say this prayer all the time, the Lord's Prayer. And there's something that our Lord put in there to help me remember that I have sinned against him a gajillion times, that's the highest number. I know, I don't know any bigger numbers than that. So, I have done so much stupid. And praise God, I've got a God that if I keep moving in his direction, then you know, I have all this forgiveness. There's a kingdom of forgiveness waiting for me, right? Who says, essentially this? If you want me to forgive you, well, what are you going to do about forgiving my other kids that have done stupid? So I think it's so funny that we don't we know we look at what God has done for us, we look at what you're sure our Lord and Savior did on the cross for us. And we can see that we are sinful creatures, and praise God, he did it. But it's almost as if we forget that he's doing it for the person who's sinning against us. And we rarely ever put ourselves in the shoes of the one who's ascending against somebody else. We rarely take that responsibility and think, oh, my gosh, I'm doing this to you. Men, I hope you release me. I hope you're not holding on to bitterness, I, I I have to think about for me, grace is such a massive thing. I've been given so much grace, I must give grace. You know, I hope that people aren't holding on to I've done stupid, I've hurt people. I've jacked things up. I've sinned up miss things. I mean, it's just, I have no problem. At this point in my life. Now I did the first half of my life, you know, just like most people still I say this, and a lot of people go well, I couldn't say what he just said, I don't have a problem, recognizing that I am a sinful creature in need of great salvation and grace and mercy and love, right? And the reason why I'm able to say that is because I don't hide behind it. You know, when we convince ourselves that maybe we haven't done as bad we struggle in hiding, you know, I don't want to look at the sins. It's so funny. There's things that we go through in next level life where somebody's like, oh, I don't want to look at that anymore. It's like, no, no, no. It's okay to look at it. It's okay to go. That's no longer me, I'm moving in this direction. I'm fixing things, I'm changing things. So to hold on, to art against your brother, to not forgive the person who has sent me all but Chris, you don't understand how badly they sinned and get oh my gosh, how badly I've sinned against God has way outweighed any single individual sinning against me. Right. So if my God is big enough to forgive me, that I have got to recognize, you know, I want to stand before him and go, thank you for your forgiveness. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this kingdom, right? And I hate the thought of standing before him and going, how come you haven't forgiven these 700 people who have sinned against you? Oh, crud, you know. So it's like the the parable of the man who gets forgiven by the king his debt, which is massive that, you know, he cannot possibly pay. And once he's forgiven, he goes outside and the guy who owes him two bucks, he hasn't thrown in jail. Right? We can't be that person. We've we've got to be the person who who recognizes what has been done for all of our sin. And we have to be somebody who's able to let go of others.

Joel Fortner 38:51
Yeah, I love what you what you bring what you bring up there, Chris, because it's interesting when you read through the Bible, like in the Lord's Prayer, and all through the Bible that we look at. How does God want us to mirror him? He doesn't see his look at look at what I've done for you. But I'm trying to get you to be that way too. I'm a shepherd, you're a shepherd on the Forgiver you be a forgiver I give mercy you give mercy. I'm sacrificial, up sacrificial. He wants to create himself within us. He wants us to look like his son. Not just receive everything and being praised God, I'm going to receive that grace. Now I'd say Hey, be graceful. Don't just sit there idle, receiving it be that and then that's where a lot of the true tests but I think as we walk those things out, it helps us really see what we've been given as well, especially when we in our humanity and our flesh can experience difficulty with it like men, those situations where it's like, I don't want to forgive this person. It feels better right now in this moment. To be angry, it feels wrong to forgive, or it's those situations where if I forgive, it goes against the thought of I want, I want them to experience pain I want them to, I want them to know what they did. I want them to feel what they did, I want them to experience the super tough consequences. I will say that there's a lot when we, when we experience those emotions and those thoughts. That's the work we need to do on ourself. And this is where the word practice really comes into play, is that we have to practice being forgiving, we have to practice being graceful, because God is just that way, we are not that way. Most of us, generally speaking, we have to practice building up that muscle and cooperating with the Holy Spirit to actually be that person that God wants us to be. There are so many situations in life where I can think about, like, just a daily, you know, communication with somebody two big things that have happened, you know, in my life to me, and I can think about those times when I have that negative response. But I am now I'm practicing trying to move in this direction of you need to forgive, you need to be graceful, because you know what this is going to do inside of you. You know, this builds up that bitterness and that resentment. And then what place do you stay in? What place? Do you stay in emotionally? You're frustrated, you're angry? It's like, why do we want to choose just to stay in that place? And a lot of it's because it's I want that person to have what's coming to them. I want to put them in timeout, and hold myself back from them, because I'm mad at them. And I want them to know that. It's now it's a look at what we're doing with the relationship. We're moving in the wrong direction. We're now making what I would say are wrong decisions. We're not trying to mend. We're not trying to create unity. We're not trying to fix something, knowing it's probably only going to stay quote unquote, fixed for so long. And we're going to have to do this again. It's kind of reminds me of my relationship with God. It's like here's grace. And then here's sin again. And here's again now I'm good again. Oh, and here's sin again. And here I go, just living out what Paul say I do the things I don't want to do. And I need that grace and forgiveness. So when we can walk in those shoes, I hope that it moves all of us in the direction of man, I've got to practice being that way and not harboring up these negative emotions.

Brian A 42:34
Alright folks, well I hope this has helped you today. I hope that next time we can deliver a little bit more entertainment quality. And as always, take this information, change your business, change your life. And join us on the next episode.