683 | When Your Team Member Pushes Back — What Their Anger Is Really Telling You

You finally had the hard conversation. You were calm, you were clear, you were fair. And somehow you're the one who ended up feeling like the problem... That is coming up next.

Welcome to The Chris LoCurto Show, where we discuss leadership and life and discover that business is what you do, not who you are.

Welcome to the show, folks. I hope you're having a fabulous day wherever you are.

Today we are talking about one of the most disorienting things that happens to leaders who are doing the work.

You finally got the courage to have that hard conversation, that tough conversation that Chris has always been saying, you got to do it.

You got to have that tough conversation. You got in the get in there and help team members to understand. You do it really well. You do it with clarity.

You do a great job delivering the information and the response you get back from them, which probably is some level of anger causes you to question every single thing.

Did I do that right? Should I not have had that tough conversation? Why is this person angry? Why are they upset at me?

Man, I thought that this was going to go a completely different way.

Listen, I want to tell you what's actually going on in the moment and how to hold your ground through it.

Why Anger Is the Second Emotion (00:01:32)

So let's kind of talk about the anger piece. Let's talk about that response. So something you need to understand is anger is usually the second emotion the person is feeling, not the first one.

So, most leaders don't get this. They don't understand this, that when you're going into a hard conversation, anger is almost never the first emotion the other person feels.

When you are holding somebody accountable, when you are drawing a line, when you're naming a standard, when you're pointing to a gap that they're experiencing what fires first in that person.

And if you put yourself in their shoes, if you think about this, you'll probably get there. It's almost always guilt or shame. Almost always.

Now, you might have somebody who responds with, I don't even know what the heck you're talking about. You might have somebody who's responding with, you know, just complete denial.

That's a completely different track. They're going to tell you that immediately.

But what happens most of the time or a good percentage of the time is you get this phenomenal pushback that has some level of anger behind it, and it's always coming after some level of guilt or shame.

The person has recognized, even if unconsciously, that what you're saying about them is correct.

So why does the flip happen? Well, because guilt and shame are vulnerable, they're exposed. And for a lot of people, the nervous system handles that exposure by flipping immediately to something that feels way more powerful and that is anger.

What the Anger Actually Looks Like (00:03:13)

What does it look like? Pushback, deflection, blame shifting. Sometimes they will try and throw you under the bus, right?

They'll blame you. Comments like, I can't believe you're doing this to me. All of these responses really are not about you.

It's somebody who's trying to outrun that feeling that they are having in that moment of not wanting to sit with, I did this, this is my fault, this is my struggle, this is my problem.

The anger, the pushback, the defensiveness, the deflection, the blame shifting is all self protection.

It is somebody convincing themselves that they have to become angry because they have to protect themselves.

Now, understanding that doesn't actually make the moment easier for you, but it does help you to keep from absorbing their wound as your failure, their problem as your issue. Right?

A bad reaction after a good conversation is not evidence that you did something wrong.

So let's kind of walk through a scenario that any leader has probably experienced and you may be a leader, it may be somebody in your family that you're experiencing this with.

The scenarios can change the details can change the industry, the role can change. The specific conversation is probably always different, but the pattern tends to be the same almost word for word, right?

So let's think of a leader. A new leader, new to management, new good instincts, very genuine person, wants to do right by the team, but realizes 'I've really got to have a tough conversation with somebody'.

I finally have to address this behavior that's kind of been slipping.

So it's nothing dramatic. They have the conversation, there's clear expectations laid down, it's delivered calmly, and it's delivered to a couple of team members whose performance has been sliding and both of them come back hot.

One accuses the leader of targeting him personally. The other digs up things from months ago, totally unrelated, has absolutely nothing to do with the situation, but starts building a case.

Neither of them actually engages with what was actually said about their behavior. Sound familiar, leader?

Sound like you've been here before? Of course, the problem is in that situation, almost every single leader is shooken up.

They don't know what's going on, they don't understand. I, I did everything right. I did it calmly. You know, LoCurto says I'm supposed to do this in a way that's not accusatory.

And now I'm the bad guy. Why am I the bad guy? I thought this was what I was supposed to do.

It is what you're supposed to do. It's exactly what you're supposed to do.

So here's what I want you to ask yourself. This should be like the first questions you ask yourself in the situation. Was I fair? Was what I said accurate? Was it fair? Was it correct?

If the answer is yes, you should ask this next question. Were you calm when you said it?

You know, were you ripping somebody's head off? Were you being a jerk? Were you being nice? Were you being just delivering it in a way that was not creating crazy amounts of conflict?

If the answer is yes, great. Go on to the third question. So what are you actually second guessing right now?

If you did it correctly, the information was correct, it was the right people, you did it calmly, you delivered it well. You weren't getting upset, you weren't getting angry, you weren't ripping anybody's head off.

Then what are you second guessing right now? And I will tell you. The answer is almost always while I was wondering if I should have even said anything at all, folks, that is the trap.

A hard reaction to a right conversation makes leaders question the conversation as a whole instead of understanding the actual reactions.

What's Happening Underneath — The Ego's Role (00:07:41)

So what is happening underneath this situation? Both team members knew on some level that the expectations being named were fair, they were accurate, they were correct. That's what made it so hard to receive.

So when someone points to like maybe a gap or, you know, something that you're not accomplishing and they're holding you accountable because this is something that exists in your lane, in your role and what you're doing, then the ego's job, unfortunately, is to protect that person from sitting in discomfort.

So what does the ego do? It deflects.

It attacks it completely rewrites the whole story and makes you the villain. Why? Because that was way easier than owning the. The gap that you pointed out.

So what looks like aggression is almost always defense. What feels like an attack on you is usually a person fighting with themselves.

They just don't direct it at themselves.

So think about this. You've probably experienced this a time or 10,000 in your own life when somebody is holding you accountable.

When somebody's pointing something out and it hurts, it's a struggle, it's something you don't like. How do you respond?

That victim mentality that comes along and says, I have to do something to save me in the moment. I have to protect me right now. So how am I going to protect me now? Those who are the best at this they will fire quickly.

They will have information they can process so rapidly in self protection because it's probably been something that they have been doing since they were a kid.

This is something that is in their Root System. This is something that they are unfortunately good at. Protect, protect, protect. Do not receive the accountability.

Because if you receive the accountability and this is understandable, doesn't justify it. But we should try to understand where that person is coming from.

If they receive the accountability that they did something wrong or they're messing something up or they're not doing something correctly, then in their minds it's saying that they're a bad person and many people can't handle that.

So how do they respond? What's the first thing they do? Fire back with anger. Fire back with deflection.

And unfortunately many times they will fire back by firing on you. They will come up with something to blame you for. So what do you do about this? This is powerful.

The first thing you have to make sure you don't do is receive their pushback and do the exact thing right back at them.

Man, I can tell you, I think we have all been guilty of that. We have all made that really stupid mistake of somebody fires on us. We were right, we did everything right. We should be. We're the leader.

We're supposed to hold them accountable. We're the parent, we're supposed to hold them accountable. We're the spouse, we're supposed to hold them accountable. All of these aspects, we're good, we're right, we're doing the right thing.

And then when they fire on us, it puts us in a place usually they're probably not going to hit something that is a good accountability piece.

Back to you, it's probably going to be some level of attack. And then how do you respond? Well, unfortunately most people respond with self protection.

Here's where the battle begins. Here's where it becomes a huge argument because instead of recognizing what the person is going through and what they are doing, we hear an attack and then we go on the defense.

How to Prepare Before the Conversation (00:11:56)

Guys, I'm going to tell you that is your absolute worst position to be in. Instead, here's what I want you to do. I want you to watch this like a movie. I want you to prepare ahead of time.

You know what it's like when you watch that movie and you know the bad guys chasing the girl through the forest.

You're already telling yourself she's going to trip over a limb, she's going to trip over a rock somewhere and he's going to catch up to her quickly.

Right. You know what's going to happen? Well, if you prepare yourself for these meetings and you allow yourself to think about how could this go wrong, instead of just going, I'm going to do this all the right way, everything's going to go just peachy keen.

Nope, do it the right way, but prepare for it to not land well. If you can think about it and you can process through, how could this person respond?

I always try and think of the Personality Style, what I know about them, the history I've had with that person, if I have to have that type of conversation.

And then what I think through is, how do I expect it to go? Do I expect them to push back? Do I expect them to deflect? Do I expect them to become defensive? Do I expect them to attack me when I'm in that position?

Then all of a sudden I can, and this is the most important thing, remain calm. I can stay calm and watch the storm brewing in front of me. I can see that they're building.

I can see that they're going to come with a response. I can hear the response.

And instead of being emotionally handcuffed to their response and instead of losing worth to their response, and instead of second guessing myself, did I just do something wrong?

I recognize that they are in a struggle. And I ask a question, hey, how are you feeling right now? What are you experiencing? It sounds like you're frustrated. I'm hearing you being frustrated.

I have a question for you though. Is what I said wrong? Did I say anything incorrect? Don't be harsh, don't be cold, don't be punishing. Just be clear and most importantly, immovable.

How to Hold the Line In the Moment (00:14:25)

Now, I will tell you, before you ever go into a meeting like this, take a little notepad and write down all the things that you want to discuss.

I don't do it on my phone. I don't do it on my computer. I might do it on my computer depending upon the situation. But usually I will go in and I will list out on a notepad. I was gonna say a blue notepad because that's what we use around here. I love blue.

And I will list out the things that I have to discuss with this person and the things that I'm looking for responsibility on from this person so that when they respond and they deflect and they attack and they blame shift.

I'm able to go, hey, help me to understand something. I'm hearing your frustration and your response seems to be one of attacking me or your response seems to be one of blame shifting.

But here's my question. This is the thing that I just pointed out. Is it incorrect? Was I wrong with that? Is that not something that happened and put it back on them to answer the thing that you're originally discussing.

That's the place they want to get away from. Another way you can do this is, I'm sorry, let's go back to the thing that I said, this thing right here. And I--

You can't see this right now, but I'm pointing to the line on, you know, the. The imaginary line on my blue notepad. This is the thing. This is the thing that I wanted to discuss. I see that you're frustrated.

I'd love to understand why you're frustrated because that this is the thing that we need to talk about. Not the thing that you just mentioned.

Not the person you just blamed for something or not blaming me for this. Let's get back to this piece. When you can drive them back to the information, it really wrecks them because their whole goal was to deflect you to something else.

Their whole goal was to come at you with a threat of anger so that you would feel bad about you and you would feel guilty about this conversation.

But when you are calm and you've already been expecting this to potentially go wrong, then it's easy to go, hey, I'm so sorry. Let's get back to the thing that I just mentioned.

I didn't hear you take responsibility for this. Are you saying that this isn't accurate and it allows you to bring them right back to where you were? When you do that, it signals to them you're not moving, you're not changing.

They're going to have to face the music. They're going to have to face the thing that you just held them accountable to. So no matter how much they deflect or no matter how much they blame shift.

When you bring them back to the piece that you're trying to discuss, at some point, even if they try to deflect three, four times, keep bringing them back. You know, I'll even sometimes say, okay, we'll talk about that in a minute.

I'm gonna take a note and write down what you just said. And we'll talk about that after we're done here. Let's get back to this thing right here. And that really throws them off because now you've deferred their comment.

We're not gonna talk about that right now. We'll talk about that later. Let's get back to this piece and that really messes with them because they're realizing you're not changing.

They can't convince you to go somewhere else. They can't, you know, misdirect you and get you focused on something else because you're not falling for it.

The key to this entire piece is that you are not emotionally handcuffed to their response and you don't feel the need to defend and you don't feel the need to jump into a brand new argument.

Instead, bring them back, get them to take responsibility or find out why they will not take responsibility by asking them questions and stay focused on that.

When you do this, almost always what you're going to find is that they will fall in line and they will discuss the topic. What's the rest of the time?

When They Double Down (00:18:54)

Well, unfortunately, sometimes people aren't smart enough to just listen and take responsibility. Sometimes people will double down.

Sometimes they realize you are going to force them to have to face this thing you're talking about and that's when they're going to make some really bad decisions.

Do not get upset. Do not be shocked and surprised.

And listen, I've only had this happen in 30 plus years, probably less than a half a dozen times, probably somewhere around a half dozen times where somebody has literally thought, oh, I'm going to get even more angry at Chris and that's going to really get me in control.

And they ended up losing their job because they made a really stupid decision.

So it rarely happens. But just know that it is a possibility and if it does, do not get upset. Do not lose control.

Caution them on their tone, caution them on what they're saying, and if they do not stop, warn them that they are about to lose their job. I have had some times where I've had to literally say, right now you're about to lose your job.

I really suggest that you consider the things that you're saying.

I've had some people pull out of that and do a really good job, apologize and get back in line and everything was good. And I've had some who didn't.

Key is you are not finding yourself struggling with you doing the wrong thing. You've asked yourself, you've clarified with yourself, this is the right thing to do, I've done it the right way. This is somebody else's response. Don't get emotionally handcuffed.

Push back, get them back in line. And at the end of the day, if they choose not to take responsibility, then lead. What are the consequences that you're going to give for their refusal to take responsibility.

The great thing is, is that when you do hold a standard with dignity, then most people are going to. They're not going to. They may not respond well at the moment, but they're probably going to respect it later.

Takeaway (00:21:13)

The next time you hold a line on someone and someone pushes back hard. Before you start second guessing yourself, ask one question. Was my conversation fair, calm and clear?

Once again, if the answer is yes, then the reaction belongs to them, not to you. You don't have to absorb what they're saying. You don't have to receive it. You don't have to fix it in the moment. You don't have to chase them down with reassurance.

You don't have to soften what you said to smooth things over. Your job is to stay present, to stay regulated and to let them process. Your job isn't to control how they receive hard news.

That's not your job. Your job is to deliver it with dignity and then hold the line. Now, if they are coming up with information that is contradictory to what you've said, then dig in, gain perspective and find out.

Maybe you have a new piece of information that might shift things. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about that bad response.

The leaders who learn all of what we've been talking about today, they stop dreading hard conversations because they're no longer responsible for the other person's emotional response.

They're only responsible for their own. So if this hit home, go back and listen to episode 682.

We, we talk about the empathy trap and how the same care that makes you a great leader can quietly become the thing that's keeping your team stuck.

Same series goes hand in hand with this one. Also, if this hits home, come find me on Instagram hrislicurdo. I talk about this stuff every single week. Real leadership, real teams, real situations. Well, folks, that's all the time that we have for today.

As always, take this information. Change your leadership, change your business, change your life, and join us on the next episode. Significant.